Life, Health & The Universe
Welcome to **Life, Health & The Universe**, the podcast dedicated to empowering women in their 40s and 50s to embrace a vibrant and meaningful life. Join us as we explore the intersection of health, wellness, and personal growth, offering insights and inspiration to help you navigate this transformative stage of life.
Each week, we dive into topics that matter most to you— from holistic health and nutrition to mindfulness and self-discovery. With expert interviews, relatable stories, and practical tips, we aim to inspire you to live your best life, cultivate deeper connections, and find purpose in every moment.
Whether you’re seeking to enhance your well-being, explore new passions, or simply find a supportive community, **Life, Health & The Universe** is here to guide you on your journey. Tune in and discover how to thrive in this exciting chapter of life!
Contact Nadine: https://lifehealththeuniverse.podcastpage.io/contact
Life, Health & The Universe
Ditch The Tube, Save The Planet - Health Entrepreneur, Karen Tan
Imagine brushing your teeth without exposing yourself to hormone disruptors, pesticides, and hidden sugars. That's the revolutionary approach Karen Tan brings to oral care with her tooth powder company OhGiGi.
Karen's journey began through personal necessity when multiple chemical sensitivities and fibromyalgia forced her to examine everything in her environment—including her toothpaste. What she discovered was shocking: even "healthy" toothpaste brands contained ingredients that were potentially compromising her wellbeing. This revelation, coupled with learning about the critical importance of oral microbiome health, led her to create a simpler, cleaner alternative.
We dive deep into the concerning ingredients lurking in conventional toothpaste, from sodium lauryl sulfate to triclosan and fluoride, exploring their potential impacts on hormonal balance, brain function, and overall health. Karen explains how these chemicals accumulate in our bodies over time, potentially contributing to chronic health issues that many people never connect to their daily oral care routine. Most fascinating is her discussion of how the sweeteners in toothpaste might be triggering dopamine responses and affecting everything from focus to sleep quality.
The environmental impact of oral care products also takes centre stage as Karen shares her audacious goal of preventing one million toothpaste tubes from entering landfill. With each jar of OhGiGi tooth powder replacing approximately 2.5 tubes of conventional toothpaste, she's already saved over 50,000 plastic tubes from waste streams—making customers active participants in this sustainability mission.
Whether you're concerned about chemical exposures, interested in optimising your oral and gut microbiome, or simply looking to reduce your environmental footprint, this conversation will forever change how you think about that twice-daily ritual of brushing your teeth. Subscribe now to stay updated on our upcoming episodes exploring holistic approaches to health and wellbeing.
You can find Karen's Full Profile in our Guest Directory https://lifehealththeuniverse.podcastpage.io/person/karen-tan
Welcome to Life, health and the Universe, bringing you stories that connect us, preventative and holistic health practices to empower us and esoteric wisdom to enlighten us. We invite you to visit our website, where you can access the podcast, watch on YouTube and find all of our guests in the guest directory. Visit lifehealththeuniversepodcastpageio. Now let's get stuck into this week's episode. If you're someone who's always looking for ways to improve your health, naturally, this episode is for you. If you're someone who is conscious of your impact on the environment and you're looking for ways to minimize that impact, this episode is for you. Meet Karen Tan Integrative Health Practitioner, wellness Entrepreneur, natural Maker, wellness entrepreneur, natural maker, mum of two and the founder of OGG natural organic tooth powder. Karen's here today to share her personal story and tell us about the growing OGG brand. Welcome, karen. Thank you so much for joining me hi, nadine.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for having me. It's a pleasure to be on your podcast oh, thank you.
Speaker 1:It's been um, so it's been a pretty quick turnaround. I I'll tell you my my little background of uh how I found OGG. I just got an ad on Instagram and I had my birthday coming up. So I like you know, when you get ads and you're like, oh, I wouldn't mind that, I wouldn't mind that. So OGG tooth powder was on my list for my birthday in April and so I ordered it and I've been using it ever since. So probably only about three or four weeks Loved it. But when I saw I had a little note in my package that said and I don't know if it was you who personally packaged- it, or I think maybe it was.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, we do everything and it was like this is how many toothpaste tubes we've prevented from going into landfill. And I was like, oh, I need to know more about this woman. And so I went onto your website and loved your story and so I invited you here today. So thank you so much for joining me. I've rambled already.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, that's really nice to hear how you've come up, you know, come around to the product or found out about this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it's really cool. It's so nice to like be. You know, it feels very personal when you get a message in your, you know, with your product and find out that you know your story as well. Find out that you know your story as well, which is one of the things that I love about doing this podcast is we do get to hear about people's journeys to where they are today. Um, but also, you know, you've got a great, a grand mission, um. So, yeah, we're here to talk about all of those things today. So do you want to start us off by just sort of giving us a bit of background, without giving too much away all in one go, because otherwise we'll be like that's it. Then we've got to drag it out. Just about your background, like, how did you come to be where you are doing what you're doing today?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I guess, in a little bit of a nutshell and we might go into bits and pieces a bit later is I have been on a bit of a health journey for the last, I think since about um 2015, so I don't know. That's almost 10 years now. I think when I started was about eight years in um and previous prior to that, as an, an architect. I've been trained as an architect, worked as an architect for almost 20 years, had kids, and then, you know, I think, when we have kids, like you know, things change in your body and, yeah, a few sort of health issues turned up and it progressively got worse. And then you know, you add all this going back to work and the stress levels. Or, and then you know, you add all this going back to work and the stress levels, um, yeah, so I had chronic um. Oh no, sorry, oh my god, multiple chemical sensitivities. Uh, that was this kind of starting point, but it was something that I think, looking back, I've always known. I just didn't know there was a label for it. I was, you know, mom and dad used to call me a hypochondriac when I was a kid, um, and then, when it came up again, I got diagnosed with fibromyalgia. Um, so I guess from the start, with the multiple chemical sensitivities, I started removing stuff, you know, products and fragrances, especially after I had my first child, my son. Like I, just during pregnancy, I just couldn't deal with any sort of perfumes just like, and all my whole collection had to go in a bin just made me really sick. Um, so I haven't been doing like you know, just the basics and all for a while. But then when that came up, I just went gung-ho and took everything out um, including my husband's deodorant and aftershave or everything. Everything went um and then I was buying, like a healthy toothpaste.
Speaker 2:I wasn't already using any of the regular supermarket brands, but then, um, like in 21, I kind of went oh, I might just do a bit more of a little um audit of the house and what we've got and what we're using. And I was also sort of looking at hidden sugars. You know sugars in your diet and it was really easy to sort of um look at and avoid or, you know, change but hidden sugars and I was like, oh my gosh, I didn't know there was hidden sugars in your um supplement capsules and that sort of stuff. So I started looking a lot um closer and realized that I had sugar in my toothpaste and and then, when I looked further into it, some of the ingredients, even in the healthy, healthy toothpaste brand I was buying I was like, oh, maybe that's not something I should be using.
Speaker 2:So, um, I was learning on the detox summit you know it was COVID at that time um, online in the states and someone started talking about tooth powders and oral microbiome. That was a whole topic on itself with detox and that got me really fascinated. It was really expensive to get that product in from the States and I looked at the ingredient list and I went, oh, I've got everything here. So I started, you know, putting something together and used it and was like, wow, this is amazing. Like I had, you know, such an amazing experience of how clean my teeth was feeling. And I just I had, you know, such an amazing experience of how clean my teeth was feeling.
Speaker 1:And I just that's how it started. Really, yeah, wow, wow. I think this is a really great conversation. I've certainly, when I had I have never experienced, well never known to experience chemical sensitivities, you know, with any kind of inflammation or or um illness, but when I had kids it was a real. That was when my awareness um really sort of came to household products, um, and I started making a lot of my own household products and um then gradually over time started making my own skincare and that sort of thing, and I have dabbled in making my own toothpaste. So I'm kind of aware of these things as well. Would you kind of tell us because I think that, like you said, you weren't aware that you had chemical sensitivities Can you share with us how some of those things were showing up for you?
Speaker 2:yeah. So I mean, um, as a kid I would just break out in hives every now and then, but you know, doctors didn't really the GP didn't really know what was going on and there were big, you know big lumps of hives all over my skin and I'll just calamine lotion, stay at home for a few days and that's it. As I got older like I it would this is prior to being a lot more aware, like I would just, I noticed I was I'd get a headache when, you know, you walk through the Myers perfume aisle like blush and you know all those places, stores with really strong smells. But I don't know, I just kind of, you know, you just kind of put it down to oh my god, maybe something else that had happened that day or you didn't sleep enough and that sort of stuff. Um, yeah, but then when I was pregnant and the perfume smells they were really strong. That was just like a real no, like it. Just, you know it was feeling nauseous and about to vomit and that sort of stuff. So that was probably the starting point of being a lot more sort of like. You know, I can't like it's, I just it's a straight no, like I can't do perfume, I couldn't even spray it on myself but I was still tolerant of being around people that you know had. You know, and you know you work in an office. Everyone comes in wanting to smell nice and that's how we know a lot of society and that's how it sort of. You know, that's expectations and that's what's standard around.
Speaker 2:And then I, yeah, so I fell sick. The first time I had chronic fatigue. You know, like I was literally sleeping 10, 12 hours trying to wake up to get the kids to school and finding it really hard to do that, but getting up because I had to, and then the moment they went to school I'd come back and just go into bed and fall asleep again. But on the outside I looked all right, I looked normal, but inside I just like every, you know, every bone, every muscle just felt so tired. Um, yeah, and then had some tests and the integrative health practitioner doctor that I was, he's just, he's got multiple chemical sensitivities. He obviously very sensitive to things and you know, just suggested I started to move away from that stuff. And I think around that time when I had my um, by the time I had my second um and I had started sort of um, got a thermomix. So you know, I was starting to dabble in that whole like um more from the food space, you know, like really eating from scratch and you know your preservatives and all that sort of flavorings and stuff um, and we did a lot of work around our gut health with like the gaps program and stuff like that um, and that helped me heal a lot better along with just moving, I guess I would sort of say, the surface level of like you know your fragrances, your cleaning products, your sort of some of your beauty products that you use and that sort of stuff um.
Speaker 2:But then I started studying through Thermomix because I was doing demonstrations and all for custom, I came across an amazing well, I think she was probably I don't know who she is, I can't remember her name, but she was a guest at one of these demos I was doing and you know I go around she's chatting to everyone and I go, what do you do? And she's like, oh, I'm a building biologist. And I went, oh, what's a building biologist? And she told what it was and that night I went home, looked it up and my brain just went and I just I could not sleep that night because I was back in architecture at that time and building biology is all about the built environment and how that affects your health and being an architect working in the commercial space building all these buildings for offices and you know community buildings and stuff I was like, oh my gosh, we've been so focused on, you know, building for um, the environment and and I my career was over that esd.
Speaker 2:You know solar panels, uh, section j, all your energy um initiatives and strategies, but no one was designing for the occupants that were in the building and we spent like over 90 of the time in in buildings. So this is pre-COVID, obviously over COVID. That percentage just went out of the water. I just went, wow, like that needs to happen. So it became something that was so obvious to me and something I became so passionate about that I ended up deciding to study building biology.
Speaker 2:So I started enrolled, started studying with Nicole Wilgema and probably about two, three subjects in when I was doing mold and doing a few of these you know air quality subjects um, we came to the realization that it probably um wasn't a good idea for me to finish to become a building biologist, because that was the whole idea I was going to leave architecture, be a building biologist, but had that architecture background, um, because I um, that was probably when I really realized that, uh, I called it an ability now I don't call it a disability because I'm a canary like I could walk into a building and within four or five minutes if you see me sort of running out or, like you know, going up making an excuse to want to leave, like all my you know spider senses are up.
Speaker 2:So over that period of time I started documenting the things like so and there's like there's a microbiologist in the states, like she's gotten to a point where she's so refined, depending on um, whether it's a tingle or a headache at the bottom of her head or a metallic taste, she can even she can even um connect it to the type of strain of mold that's in the air.
Speaker 2:So I'm not at that level but, like you know. So you get headaches, you get sort of fogginess, I get different types of tingling sensations on my head, or, like I get a full-on headache and you know whether it's at the bottom or top, my eyesight goes blurry. The reaction to the skin tends to generally be more around food, stuff that you're eating, like so preservatives or things, but yeah, so those are some of the few things, and I guess you know mold exposure is also a big thing in terms of chemicals. You know, not necessarily chemical sensitivities, but yeah. But in terms of just fragrances and all those sort of things, it's, um, yeah, mainly headaches, tingly feelings, sometimes even ear ringing, just depending on, um, how intense it is, and that sort of stuff.
Speaker 2:So that's hectic. Like taste on your mouth. Sometimes that happens to you like a dryness. Um, yeah, it's like a silver sort of taste in your mouth. It's quite yeah. So that was, um, yeah, I mean I would have been really good as a building biologist but it would have come as an impact to my health.
Speaker 1:So because of the things within the buildings or because of, like, the things that people are wearing or a bit getting exposed to it.
Speaker 2:So okay, at the end of the day, chemical, chemical sensitivities is a very broad, um, I guess, uh, definition. Uh, so there are, I've there. So in that space I went back within architecture, tried to sort of, you know, get the architects on board going hey guys, you know, this is the next big thing and this is way before covid happened, and, you know, try to sort of create some frameworks around how architects and designers can design within buildings. So you've got the building, you've got the things that are within the building that can affect someone, like your paint, your VOC and all those sort of things. There's a lot more things you know. You hear about low VOC paint and that sort of low VC. You know carpets and vinyl and tiling and that sort of stuff. So all those things are things that I guess you put on a building that have chemicals in them too. That off gas, that new car smell Some people love it, but all of those are chemicals that affect some people and don't some people. But then you've also got the occupants that are going in with stuff on themselves, that are also then contributing to all the lovely mix of chemicals that are in there.
Speaker 2:And I think where I got to with architecture is, I realized that it was important. It would be quite impossible to create almost a matrix of what is in the air because you've got so many variables with you know people, you can probably control the built environment in terms of what you put into it and measure that. But you know being able to measure because you know, especially if you've got public buildings and stuff, you you never know you might have a constant number of people that wear certain things, that are office workers that come in every day, but you've got visitors and guests. But yeah, so it got really complicated, um, in terms of and then I guess from the architecture scene, uh, there is sometimes a bit of that attitude with any industry. You know we've done this the same way. You know it works why?
Speaker 2:should we change things? And it was a lot easier to, I think, measure something like your energy from the sun or gas and electricity, whilst measuring happiness. Measuring, you know, retention rates and all those sort of stuff of productivity and that sort of stuff isn't as easy. Yeah, it can be a bit more subjective, yeah, very subjective happiness. You know what's the measure.
Speaker 2:But I think since then, you know, I think COVID has helped to move some of these things forward a little bit too, just because, you know, we were in that situation of not being able to work in our buildings and then just that whole virus thing was a create a lot more awareness around the quality of environments, um, but this I still think there's a long way to go. But anyway, back to chemical sensitivities. So, um, yeah, so I guess I chose to leave architecture to go right, you know what? Because it was really hard having conversations with the top people that were, you know, uh, in charge of the budgets and that sort of stuff, because you know you could put in three percent extra and make a difference with the building in terms of the design, but then you still had, like, I probably think, at least 50 or 60 percent of what is an environment is contributed by the people, because you're the ones that are using the building. So I chose to leave.
Speaker 2:That became an integrative health practitioner to sort of really educate from the bottom up and yeah, that's kind of segwayed myself out of that into more, I guess, the wellness space, and then did wellness coaching for quite a couple years, a lot of it through COVID, supporting corporate teams with their wellness when they were working from home, got some amazing results, but then burnt myself out again. Oh no, yeah, and you know like I'm of that belief where obviously I have to, you know, have a certain when you're working with people and helping people with their health journeys, you've got to have your own container of a, a full cup too, and when you don't have a full cup you can't fill someone else's cup. So, yeah, that's uh left that. But that was a really good point of time because it allowed me to sort of really push a little bit more with some of the questions, because a lot of my symptoms came up again and then finally got a bit more of a um, an answer to what was going on with myself.
Speaker 1:Yeah, wow, yeah, that's quite some journey, but I mean, but it's all kind of connected, isn't it like health through your environment and because of your experience, like you've ended up where you are today because of your own experience and your passion and your interest to essentially repair your health yeah, exactly, and.
Speaker 2:I think from the bottom up exactly and I think, um, you know, wellness as an industry has become such a big industry and there's so many, you know, subsections to it and and there's so many trends that happen. But, like I, you know, taught my clients and stuff, you know, really just the foundations, just the basics. Just go back to basics. You know you don't need all the gadgets first and all that stuff. You just, you know, work on your sleep, work on your water intake, work on your diet, just work on some of these really simple things that do not require a lot of output from a budget point of view or cause, and start there first and see how, what, you know, what happens when you make those changes before you try and do anything else.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, I'm all about this sort of, you know, just sticking with your everyday foundations and habits. And yeah, I guess, yeah, it was really interesting because I guess in you know, we talked a lot about habits stacking too, and you know, brushing teeth is a habit and, like, looking back, like you know, we spend two minutes a day, morning and night, you know, so that's four minutes minimum, or should be brushing our teeth, but we never, I never, sort of thought about connecting a habit, you know, stacking a habit to go with that, even if it was just, you know, reflection or some gratitude you could do in your head and stuff. So that was, yeah, you always still there's always still space and opportunity for a lot of things to do. Before you know you go buy that fancy gadget or something like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely, I am totally with you. I um have worked in the fitness industry for a long time 15 plus years, 20, closer to 20 years and that's the thing that my husband and I are always telling people. You know, go back to the simple things getting enough sleep, uh, making sure you get outside daylight.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, real food, like if it's in a packet, then check what's on, what's in that. That kind of stuff, like the simple stuff, um, that you that you don't need any, yeah, extra cash for that's the. That's always the great starting point. Um, I, before we talk more about your tooth, the tooth powder, I want to say toothpaste, but it's not toothpaste, tooth powder, um, and you know, I would love to hear a bit more about, if you know, because I think that this is something that a lot of people probably aren't that aware of is those chemical sensitivities through, um, cosmetics, deodorants, that sort of stuff? There's the some of the things, the symptoms that you mentioned headaches, rashes, tingling, dry mouth, fatigue but there are some other, even more dramatic things that can happen. Are you able to talk to some of that, like in terms of hormonal, yes, desregulation, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so allergies would probably be a big one. So, like I've never had any allergies my entire life and yeah, sort of, you know, probably 15 years ago now, like I suddenly developed a crustacean allergy. So I think it's just, you know, all these sort of chemicals we know are hormone disruptors and I think it's not so much about that. You know, you could spray perfume on yourself once and then you'll get sick. It's more just, it's such a micro dosing, it's just that tiny exposure. They say. Before a woman walks out the door getting ready in the morning, they could be exposing themselves to about 150 different types of chemicals. Wow, your moisturizers you've got, obviously, your toothpaste, your makeup, your hair, perfume, everything minimum 150 types of chemicals. So, like, even before you walk out the door you're doing, and if you're doing that daily, um, you know, over time. So I just think my body just got to a point where, just when I had enough, and then obviously something, I know what the event was I was working in an environment that you know, I think just had really poor air quality, potentially some more, and that just tips my body over and that's how you know, you could suddenly move in a house you don't. You know it might have a tiny bit of something and then over over time it's sunny you just get sicker and sicker. Um, so definitely for me it was allergies.
Speaker 2:I definitely think my gut health was 100% affected. Um, you know, I was having a lot of issues with bloating and um, just, yeah, that sort of stuff, fatigue was a huge one for me. Um, and I think just over time there was. You know, like it's hard to draw a direct correlation and stuff, but you know, like I think that and stress you know my fibro, that sort of stuff. Like just, you see things that hold all the autoimmune conditions and stuff. You know there is a direct relation. And if you look at you know some of Nicole's research, you know, and if you look at, you know some of Nicole's research, you know you can see as all these sort of new products and manufacturing sort of started in 50-plus years ago, like the rate of cancer has gone up, like the rate of everything increasing or happening is very sort of there's a correlation there. So, yeah, and then we're not talking. You know chemicals are in food too, so it's, it's everything.
Speaker 1:Yeah yeah, yeah. So it's like the, yeah, it's the build-up and it's that like we. There's, there's just an overexposure, because our liver is designed to cleanse our bodies, right, but if the but, if the liver is backed up, then it's got to go somewhere and that's basically what's happening, because we've just got so many chemicals in our everyday lives.
Speaker 2:The skin, I think, is the first thing that it comes out in your skin. And like, looking back, I was going yeah, there was a whole, probably about a year where I just had sort of like it looked like bites on my body, like I was paranoid, like I thought I had bed bugs. I thought I had bed bugs, I had thought I but no one else in the house had any of the bites, it was just me. It was itchy, but they looked like bites and I went to the health doctor and I showed him the bites and he goes if I could get a dollar for every time one of you guys come in and tell me you've got bed bugs or a spider bite, I would be a millionaire.
Speaker 2:Because it's it's, it's symptoms, it's what you're, it's an it's. It's not a bite, it's your body telling you something very clearly hello, and these are just, you know, small, you know your, your, your eczema, and all these small little signs your body's saying, please, you know, something's not going well, I'm feeling out of balance. And then if you address it from a you know, inside out point of view, then bigger things happen and then you get bigger issues with your health and your skin and that sort of stuff, and that's what started for me yeah, yeah, and there's often not that, like, you went to an integrative, integrative practitioner, so health practitioner, so they're obviously going to have, you know, be looking at the causes.
Speaker 1:But often people will have something, um out of balance and they'll go to a regular gp and then it just get. The symptoms often just get masked with the medication, which is also they're like cream.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah, exactly yeah, or like hormones. I I feel like so many women that I know, have really bad periods and one of the biggest things I think that impacts, that is chemical sensitivities. Uh, when I was pre getting pregnant, I had a ivf and I was um, I went to have acupuncture, um, after the egg was put in and they, I had a list of things you mustn't do in the next, you know, and it was like do not spray deodorant. And that was kind of like the first time that it had really been brought into my awareness that that had such a big impact. Now it completely makes sense, but I think that that for a lot of women, is one of the areas our hormones, and why our hormones are out of balance, is because of our exposure to so many toxins.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, you've got, you know, fragrances in literally everything. Now your cream sprays, your, you know, your washing powders Washing powders, exactly Like you know. Please, don't use fabric softener. It smells, I mean, like you know there's, I guess when I was in it. So fragrances are probably the biggest thing out of anything Like if you had, because so they're little.
Speaker 2:So how it works, how a fragrance molecule work, or this sort of artificial chemicals that you know are your artificial sea breeze smell or whatever. They're little round, you know. I liken them to little round atom with lots of thorns in them on them and literally like and that carries the fragrance or the chemical fragrance, and when you smell it or you um, wash with it, or even like when you hug someone that's got fabric softener on it, it sticks to you, like your hands smell of that fabric softener because those thorns stick and they stick to the inside of your nose when you smell it. And that's what a hormone disruptor is, because in it it sort of, you know, um, sticks to your smell receptors and then it sort of like blocks that receptor from being able to, you know.
Speaker 1:So yeah you want more of it to be able to smell it, because you can't smell it anymore yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:so you know, and and when you, when something artificial is blocking your one of the receptors in your body and it can't do what it's meant to be doing, that's when your body goes, you know, in a very sort of basic sense, and those thorns are really sticky.
Speaker 2:Because you know, if you think about, if you try and um, if you've touched something or you've washed, washed something with a fragrance on it, like being able to get rid of that fragrance takes a really long time. So, yeah, I reckon like that's and the fragrance is prolific. I mean, if you think of the word fragrance on any of the ingredient labels on any product that could be made up of at least a thousand chemicals, get out of town. Yes, so I guess the brand or the company, they don't need to, they don't have space to put those thousand chemicals on that little label there, but they're not required to because it's their IP, it's their fragrance signature and that sort of stuff. But you know that word fragrance can hold up to at least a thousand chemicals on there and that's really scary yes, we, we uh don't use any of that um stuff anymore.
Speaker 1:We used to, but we went to the uk to visit my family, uh, a few months ago and my family use all of the things and it's no judgment, because it's like people. This is you know normal yeah, um, and why would they be advertising if it was bad for us? That's kind of like the mentality that we have. Um and louis, my son, has brought clothes home that were washed at my mom's house and six months later you can walk past his bedroom and you can still smell it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's full on yeah, yeah, sunscreen's also another one. They put it on. Yeah, you're just wearing, you know. So we have our own, you know, but sometimes at school they make you use those things and my kids uniforms come smelling of them.
Speaker 2:I just can't get it off. So, yeah, it's, it's probably, it's everywhere, it's in, literally infiltrated everywhere, and then you've got the fragrances in you know public spaces with it, air freshness, and it goes off. Um, it's just everywhere. It's really hard to avoid, but it's. It's not about sort of guys living in a bubble either, but it's about, you know, I guess, having awareness around, having awareness and trying our best to you know, share and educate and that sort of stuff. So yeah, my understanding is you know, we all it.
Speaker 2:I explain it since it's a radio. Our body's like a radio. It's just a volume control. Some people have a very high volume control, like myself. So I I notice things and I can, I feel it on my body, and some people have a very low volume control. It doesn't affect them. Fragrances don't affect them physically, but it does not mean that they're not getting affected. Still, doing something in their body is just not showing up in a big headache or something, or it might be a so mild headache that it's just not something that they notice. So definitely it's still affecting everyone because you can't. You know, it's not selective in that sense I don't think chemicals are selective in terms yeah, yeah, yeah. So, whilst you might not have symptoms, I still think it's really important to you know, be aware of it.
Speaker 1:And yeah. Yes, definitely we could talk about, we could keep talking about that, but we're here to talk about the um tooth powder. Yeah, so this. So you, in your um journey, you had um been diagnosed with multiple chemical sensitivities and you came to a point where you were sort of digging deeper and, um you mentioned the sugar in your toothpaste um, and you were at a conference or on an online conference and started to find out about um other alternatives.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so, so what happened from there? And I guess, maybe tell us a little bit about that and then we'll um talk about what some of the things that are risky in supermarket brands and the product um that you make and all of the good things that are in that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, cool, so, yeah. So the Detox Summit was, you know, all around detoxing. For me, being someone that has some of these things and you know I worked on my detox pathways for a very long time, continue to do that, because that's the way of managing exposure and that sort of stuff so I was really fascinated, wanted to learn about you, you know what else we could do from a detox point of view and, yeah, so there's a whole topic around, um, oral microbiome, and that was when I went, oh my gosh, like no one's talking about oral microbiome. That's in like 2020, end of 2020. Like you know this, the focus is so heavily on gut microbiome, which is important.
Speaker 2:But if you were to think about it, um, if you ask someone, go, point to me on your body, where does your digestion start? A lot of people unconsciously just point straight to your tummy. Your digestion starts in your mouth because that's where we put the food in. Our teeth are there mechanically, mechanically, to sort of break down the food, and that was also something I spoke about a lot in my with my coaching well, health clients going when you, when you eat your food, like you can count you, look at someone. Someone might chew their food three, four times and swallow. You're meant to chew your food at least 15 to 20 times and that's to break it down small enough so that it takes a lot less energy and effort for your tummy, your stomach, to, you know, break it down further. So, yeah, your digestion starts in your mouth and like it was just such a um, wow, aha moment because I was like no one's really talking about that in terms of our mouth. A lot of times, you know, we just go to the dentist for aesthetic reasons, for our teeth, to get it clean, but like, where's the understanding of all the different microbiomes that are in our mouth? You know the saliva, how, that's how the enzymes in there are sort of helping to break down. And, of course, if we've got, um, you know, not so happy or a microbiome in our mouth every time we swallow or drink or eat, all of that's going into your gut.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so that for me that was a huge aha moment, on top of the fact that I hadn't really heard about tooth powders before. So, as I got into it and you know a lot of tooth powders use clays as a bit of a you know one of their ingredients and we all know, like you know, bentonite clays are really good clay to use in terms of drawing out toxins. So that kind of all made sense and, being someone that obviously makes a lot of my own products at home, I kind of had all those ingredients. So just yeah, sort of didn't really have a recipe to go off, but kind of just looked at everything and tweaked, you know, played around with some proportions and got to a proportion of different ingredients that I liked and didn't taste too bad because clays are quite, you know, earthy too and then popped some essential oils in it and was like, oh, this is great.
Speaker 2:So I guess the sugar piece came in, because of the whole hidden sugar part too. But for me it was also a huge. And this was nothing to do with the oral detox, the detox summit, but I just went, wow, I mean, I've tried for years or I'm not trying, I've practiced for years, you know, avoiding sort of like sugar in my diet or, you know, just natural, some natural sugars, like you know, honey and stuff, but nothing processed and all um, and there I'm literally brushing my teeth first thing in the morning with sugar and I'm giving myself a sugar hit right, nothing to do with the sugar in the toothpaste being bad for my teeth. That wasn't what my concern was about. It was more what it was doing to my brain. Yeah, I was fascinated with my you know brain health.
Speaker 2:Um, so, other than gut microbiome, there's so much focus on, like you say, with physical health and stuff your body. You know everyone wanting to be 80 or 90 with like a 40 or 50 year old body because we want to be as fit as possible, but I'm like you can't be 80 or 90 with a 40 50 year body, with a 90 year old brain. Brain health is so important to you, like you also have to work on your brain health and your brain wellness. Um, because you know there's a rise of Parkinson's and Alzheimer's and all this sort of you know um, neurological sort of um illnesses and issues also related to, I guess, a lot of things that I guess we practice doing in all other parts of our lives. But, yeah, so I was like, why am I giving myself a sugar hit first thing in the morning and last thing at night? Like if I didn't have that sugar hit first thing in the morning and last thing at night, is that going to help me with my cravings during the day.
Speaker 2:Am I going to cognitively function better, be able to focus better, because cravings during the day am I cognitively function better, be able to focus better? Because, you know, with all the chronic fatigue and all, I was having a lot of brain fog and all these things, and also for me that was the curiosity going is that going to help me feel less foggy or, you know, have less cravings during the day where I feel like I want to get that sugar hit and have a piece of chocolate or something, and at night, is that going to help me sleep better? Because literally, having that sugar hit and that sweetness is that dopamine hit just before I go to bed. So I took that out and it's like I tried to find a toothpaste that didn't have sugar on the market but I couldn't find one and maybe it didn't look hard enough. But you know, but from what I was, what I had on offer in the shops around me and even online, couldn't find one. And you know you've got alternatives that have your monk fruit or your stevia or xylitol, but that was still some sort of sweetness and there were also two face that said were sugar-free, but then when you brush with it it still tastes sweet, sweet. Yeah, um, that was yeah.
Speaker 2:So for me, I learned a lot about how it's all about sugar substitutes and on you can say you're sugar free, but then if you're using something that's not potentially actual sugar but it's still, at the end they still taste sweet.
Speaker 2:So it's not about the sugars but the sweetness that we taste on our tongue and you don't have to swallow it. Your brain will detect the sweetness and it sends all these you lovely messages and gives you that dopamine hit. So, yeah, I think it definitely worked. I felt a little bit more focused and, you know, less sort of like compulsive or you know sort of those cravings during the day. And I haven't really gone back since because I did a bit of a test. I think probably maybe about a week or two after using the salt base because we only use salt in our um tooth powders with essential oils went back and used the normal toothpaste and every now and then you know if, in a situation where maybe just out of curiosity, I'll go back and try it the toothpaste normal toothpaste or even any other like just tastes extremely sweet and it's sweet to the point of uncomfortable. Like you know, never eat a lolly that sweet either sort of thing.
Speaker 1:So yeah, for that was um kind of how the powder came about so, um, so did you ever, just with that sweetness, you're like aware of the dopamine hit I'm? I'm conscious of like starting the day with sugar for the glucose spike. Have you ever trialed that? I have not.
Speaker 2:But I've not, but I've been it's. It's been on my to-do list forever. Like I really want to buy a a a little yeah and um and yeah, test it with um brushing, my brushing with toothpaste and brushing with the salt thing.
Speaker 1:I it's been on my list, just I'm scared of needles but just punching it doesn't really hurt, but um, but, even with that dopamine like that it's, yeah, and especially when you've got young kids right that they're, they're driven by sweetness for some reason, um, and yeah, so you've got that added issue of a kid maybe wanting to swallow their toothpaste as well, um, which is not good. Yeah, so you were using natural toothpastes, um, and you, and sugar was the the main thing, or, like, sugar substitutes was the main thing that you were like, oh yeah, that's not cool. But before you started using natural toothpaste, if you were using a supermarket brand, like, can you name some of the really bad things that are in?
Speaker 2:toothpaste. Well, you've got your sodium lauryl sulfate. That's probably the number one one that you know makes our toothpaste foamy and makes us feel like you know, we've got a bubbly, foamy mouth that feels like it's clean. That's a foaming agent. That's, you know, well-known sort of nowadays Lots of research around it being a hormone disruptor, right? Um, then you've got a triclosan, which is a pesticide. Oh, yes, yeah, so, and triclosan is actually what they call um I can't remember the word, but it's, it's a bio, it's in fish, it's in seafood, it's in our bodies already. Like you know, it's biopersistent. So it's well aware that it's already. You know, because all the research scientists have done blood tests and you know tests on organs and stuff, and they can see that this is already in our system Because of it Not specifically because of toothpaste, but it's also used in a lot of other sort of products, but it's there, it doesn't get removed from our system.
Speaker 1:No, no, it doesn't.
Speaker 2:It doesn't get detoxed, the liver can't get it out. Then glycerin is probably one. That's quite a simple ingredient that you see quite often on toothpaste and it's there to sort of help it make that pasty sort of feel, but it leaves a coating on your teeth. And it's there to sort of help it make that pasty sort of feel, but it leaves a coating on your teeth. Okay, I kind of liken it to like you're wearing a raincoat, so you know the water just washes off and that sort of stuff, and to a certain extent your teeth are a bone, like it's 90% hydroxyapatite, which is calcium, and it's a bone, so you know it needs to have. It's 90% hydroxyapatite, which is calcium, and it's a bone, so you know it needs to have. It is porous, it is. You know it needs to be breathable and when we put that sort of, you know, when the glycerin just keeps staying on with every time you brush your teeth, um, it's not giving your teeth that sort of breathability and being able to sort of remineralize itself and absorb and stuff. So yeah, I mean that's one of a few. You've got your all your other sort of like, your peg, pgc, and you know so many different your types of things that are into peace.
Speaker 2:Fluoride, fluoride yes, fluoride, fluoride's a huge, it's a very sort of like you know controversial ingredient. You know, I don't before. I think it's one of those ingredients that we've just known forever. You know, we've been told that we need fluoride in our toothpaste and no one's ever really sort of disputed it in that sense. But fluoride in your water too. Um, so we have a house, uh, water filtration system that's like a meter. So everything in the house, so like when I go and drink water outside, like I can taste it, I can taste everything.
Speaker 1:Chlorine, everything yeah, I can smell it when I walk past a tap that's got chlorine in it in a cup.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I think fluoride's kind of um, you know, if you look at the history of fluoride it was, it was put in in a in a community because they thought, you know, it would help with. You know, and this is like 1920s or something so different sort of environment and it's just stuck since then. You know it, it calcifies the pineal gland. You know there's research that shows that. And like 1920s or something so different sort of environment and it's just stuck since then. You know it calcifies the pineal gland. You know there's research that shows that. And really, potentially, I think they say that it's good for kids to a certain age to have some fluoride because it helps strengthen the enamel, but after that you don't really need to.
Speaker 2:But every adult in the world is using a fluoride toothpaste. And if you look at the WHO data, I think there's about I don't know 4 billion people At least a quarter of the population of the world population has some sort of oral health issue, whether it's a cavity or gum, blah, blah, blah. And if fluoride in toothpaste is actually meant to be doing what it says that it's doing, why does a quarter of the population still have this issue? So that's my sort of like. Don't really think fluoride's the sort of like. You know the end all in the winning factor.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:In terms of being, you know, prerequisite in the two-day.
Speaker 1:With the pineal gland thing, I heard that, like you just mentioned, the calcification of pineal gland because of fluoride, and I heard that for children, if they have too much fluoride, for children if they have too much fluoride, um, or I don't know if it, you know what this, what, what's okay and what's not, but that that calcification of the pineal gland can actually inhibit their intuition right, yeah, yeah yeah, um, interestingly, uh, if you well, I decline fluoride for my children at the dentist and there's never any questions asked as to why, and I'm like, well, I think they kind of know that it's not actually great.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so anyway yeah, so I actually looked it up. It's actually not even a quarter, it's 45% of people suffer from oral diseases, so it's three out of four people. Wow, so, yeah, I mean, yeah, I just think that potentially, maybe fluoride was useful, then it's maybe not as useful anymore and at the end of it it's a byproduct of aluminium extraction. Okay, so it still makes it a chemical.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, can you talk to us about, before we talk about, what's in your tooth powder and how the ingredients in it benefit our teeth? Can you talk a little bit about tooth remineralization, because you've mentioned it? I think that it's something that we're not really educated on or something that we know very much about in terms of, like, what the possibilities are for, like, tooth regeneration and and that sort of thing. Yeah, I mean, can you just sort of explain what, how that works, or not really, I'm not the expert, like you know.
Speaker 2:It's also I've been learning as I.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's okay this is how we all learn, though like um, dr stacy has a really good podcast explaining that.
Speaker 2:But in from my understanding and what I've learned, you know, um, at the end day, your our teeth, we learned. You know, at the end of the day, our teeth, we've got, you know, obviously, different layers of your neck and all that sort of stuff and in my eyes I see it like the moon crater We've got, you know, you've got a couple sort of craters and all and the more you can plug those craters up and that's you know. That's the whole remineralization thing, and the smoother your surface is and that's you know where you don't get sensitivities and stuff like that.
Speaker 2:So hydroxyapatite is a mineral and 90% of your tooth is made up of this mineral called hydroxyapatite. So you know, I guess fluoride was sort of a herald as the ingredient that could sort of help that, help that. But you know, now hydroxyapatite's like the new um ingredient that obviously matches a lot closer to what your tooth is made out of. Yeah, and then helps with that ruminalization in terms of sort of um, you know, plugging up those craters, as I call it. That's totally my interpretation of it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, um. I think I've read somewhere also like that idea of like, if you've got um scratches or something on your teeth, it helps to repair those. But I think that it it's kind of a new concept for a lot of people that that is even a possibility. Right, because the, the options and how we've been kind of educated over a long period of time is you have to brush your kid, your teeth when you're a kid with fluoride toothpaste. You have to go to the dentist and the dentist, if you've got any kind of uh damage, you get a filling. There's no, there's no like. If you do this, you can remineralize your teeth. We're not, we're not really educated on that, but there are products and the one that you mentioned, hydroxy. How do you hydroxy appetite?
Speaker 2:yeah, appetite, um is the bomb when it comes to tooth remineralization yeah, I mean, I think that, plus, you know, obviously, you know we have to take into consideration our mouth is we're literally using it a hundred percent of the time, whether we're talking, where you know it's moist, it's. We're drinking, we're eating, you know we have breaks in between and that's when your saliva builds up to sort of, you know, keep it moist and that sort of stuff. So there's also a lot of other factors that sort of can help with the. You know, keep it moist and that sort of stuff. So there's also a lot of other factors that sort of can help with the. You know, having a balanced diet diet having the right minerals, um, you know, the right vitamins all contribute to it. Um, but yeah, from a, I guess, um teeth cleaning point of view, in terms of a product, um, hydroxyapatite is a new ingredient that's come on the market in probably the last couple, one, one or two years.
Speaker 2:It's sort of really started to be a lot of action, um, around being an alternative, and that an alternative to fluoride, yeah, being at the help of ruminalization. So with hydroxyapatite dough, there are a couple of different types. One, so there is you might hear or see in on toothpaste or in the market or people talking about it. There's a nano hydroxyapatite non-nano purely talk that it's particulate size. So nano being the tinier version of it and non-nano being a little bit of a bigger particle. They're still really tiny, but the only way from my research purely my research that you can achieve a nano-hydroxy size is it's through a laboratory, it's synthetic, it's okay. So we choose to use a non-nano, which is purely natural, and so it's ground bovine bone.
Speaker 2:So with the nano, I've also learned from some dentists who are obviously doing their own research and really interested in hydroxyapatite, that there are different shapes of hydroxyapatite Needle shape. So if you look in the microscope and you look at the not at the nano hydroxy some of them are needle shapes, some of them are like more of a star shape. There's a few, I think two or three different shapes and the needle shape is probably one based on a conversation I have with dentists not one that you want to avoid because it can cross the blood-brain barrier.
Speaker 2:And there is a lot of this upcoming research on the issues of nanoparticles in our body, like how that impacts us. I think there's some research that shows there's not enough research to know what the impact of nanoparticles in our body. Oh wow, to know what the impact of nanoparticles in our body. So, oh wow, where some of these? Um, yeah, this I guess if you dig deeper into the hydroxyapatite piece there is some.
Speaker 1:There are some conversations around that okay wow so we're not looking for any other toothpaste, because we're talking about your tooth powder.
Speaker 2:But if people are looking for a toothpaste with hydroxyapatite in it, then the Nano is a no-go.
Speaker 1:Well, I mean it's not as preferable.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but you'll find that that's generally what's in the market, or they just say hydroxy. They don't actually tell you whether it's a nano or nano.
Speaker 2:So it's worth asking, you know finding out. So our tooth powders have five basic ingredients you know your butazoclase, your bentonite and your kaolin clay. You've got your calcium carbonate, which is again a calcium, that's sort of supporting that sort of remineralisation, and then you've got your bicarb soda and your salt. So we use Mount Zero salt, which is local to Victoria, you know, sort of in partnership, harvested on Indigenous land full of minerals. So it's not about one ingredient being a hero, it's really just how all these five base ingredients really interact together and, you know, help support that sort of really nice alkaline environment that is, um, you know, better for your oral microbiome in your mouth rather than an acidic one, and it helps clean your teeth at the same time.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, I guess I, at the start I just really created the tooth powder to you know, as a mechanism to clean my teeth, just to replace my toothpaste. But over time, the more research and learning that I did, I just you know, while all these ingredients are doing a lot more you know they're really creating, helping to create the right environment in the mouth to really support your oral microbiome too, which, at the end of the day, if we have happy oral microbiome. We have happy gut microbiome and you know gut and our brain and our mouth and our brain, they're all connected. So that just you know it's not the solution to better health but it contributes.
Speaker 1:It contributes, yeah, every bit. The solution to better health. But it contributes. It contributes, yeah, every every bit helps, especially when we do have so much exposure to so many toxins, like where we can make a difference. All of those things add up right yes, yeah, yeah you're also with your um tooth powder.
Speaker 1:So you've over the last, what three or four years you've got a growing brand. But you've over the last what three or four years you've got a growing brand. But you've also got a very strong philosophy about where you source your ingredients and also your packaging.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So it's like an environmental, the environmental impact or lack thereof. That's really important, that part of your um values. Do you want to talk to us a little bit about that? And um, this can kind of circle back to that little message I had in my tooth powder delivery that said how many two tubes of toothpaste had been stopped from going into landfill because I'd bought yeah, yeah, look.
Speaker 2:So I mean I'm pretty sure your community is one that has a lot of glass empty jars underneath. I'm one of them. You know, like we don't use plastic as much as we possibly can for food containers and stuff, so when I made my tooth powder, it was just a no-brainer that I reached for one of my empty glass jars and chucked it in there and I was like, hey, that's easy. Like you know, I don't need a tube or I don't need anything else to use, and so that just became a very easy decision to make that of course, I was going to put them in glass jars, like I would. You know just the thought of, you know, ordering plastic was not never a solution. Um, I considered aluminium or metal, but we couldn't use that because some of the ingredients could interact with them and not have a good result. So it was always dust. Um yeah, and as I did some research, I was like, oh my gosh, we throw over a billion and a half toothpaste out to start a year and all of this is single-use plastic.
Speaker 2:Um, there are a couple of recycle programs around that sometimes do collect um toothpaste tubes, empty toothpaste tubes, but it's like I don't think anyone really does that and or I think I'm not sure if they actually, then I'm not sure if they've actually stopped it or they haven't been able to recycle them and not, you know, be able to follow on.
Speaker 1:But, yeah.
Speaker 2:So we I worked out, you know, just based on the quantity of tooth powder we have in our jars and you know usage over time, that it equates to about two and a half tubes of toothpaste and, yeah, I just think it's really important.
Speaker 2:So I had this audacious goal of wanting to save a million to fit through some landfill and initially I thought, yeah, I'll be able to do it in a year and a half and you know it's so. I guess, from a business learning point of view, it's still definitely a goal of ours and it's, you know, I'll be so excited once we get there. But I'm not in a rush to because I think over time, you know it has been, um, yeah, it's, it's been a huge learning curve, because to getting people to sort of change to tooth powder is a huge behavioral change. You know, we're going from something that's a tooth. I've not only changed the consistency from paste to texture to powder, I've then also taken out all the sweetness from it and go here, you go, here's a two thousand at all. So, um, yeah, we're going at our own pace and it's absolutely fine.
Speaker 1:But I'm really, really proud, you know, I think, um, I was sending out some orders this morning and we're at 50, 53 000 wow and I was like wow, that for me is pretty cool and I love that you give that little message because you've, because as a customer, I feel like part of that movement. Right you're? You're letting us like join you on that journey, which is really cool. And you also do refills, don't you? For your tooth powders? So like that are in kind of paper bags.
Speaker 2:Yes, they're in a biodegradable, home, compostable refill sachet at European standards. Yeah, yeah, I guess we have made certain decisions along the way. They're not potentially the cheapest option from a packaging point of view and that sort of stuff, but for us these values are really important. Um, and yeah, we're 100. You know something that we stick by and like we recently also. Um, we, we and we've got a distributor now. So I had to get my jars retail shelf ready. You know, not just jars. So we had to create, design some boxes to go for the jars to go in. And you know there was an opportunity to say, for example, from a design point of view, use some, you know, gold or silver foil printing. But all of that meant that the box would not be recyclable. So that was the street. No, that's out of the door. We'll have to think of another way of being able to get our message across in a way that means everything is as per what we stand for. So yeah, that's great.
Speaker 1:That's great Before we close dreams. You've talked about your one million saving one million tubes of toothpaste from landfill. Dream, uh, dreams for other products. Or you just like tooth powder all the way we've got.
Speaker 2:we've got. The dream always started with a bit of a series, so there was always going to be a toothpaste, a brushing, an oil pulling mouthwash thing. The oil pulling is probably something some people don't like because of the consistency of coconut oil it's in more of a liquid form, so that should be coming up sometime later this year. Oh how cool. And then I've always wanted to do a floss too, because I think the sustainable floss in the market, whilst they are great current solutions, I feel like I've got a better one.
Speaker 1:You can't talk about that. You've got to keep it secret.
Speaker 2:Oh great, it's using an entirely new fibre that is not in the market at the moment.
Speaker 1:Okay, great.
Speaker 2:Very iconic Australian iconic fibre Cool and it's all recycled. You know all circular economy, recyclable, sustainable and all that sort of stuff.
Speaker 1:Love it. Amazing, karen. Thank you so much for joining us. We've kind of hit the. We're right on track for hitting our hour and I'm conscious of your um time, so I really appreciate you um spending this hour with me and sharing uh everything about your journey and giving us some uh important education around our health and improving it. Um yeah, loved it.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much I hope everyone finds it useful, but I'm sure they will and we're gonna pop your um profile in the guest directory so there'll be links to um, your website, and um people can find out more about your products there. Thanks, thank you. So Thanks so much. Take care, won't you? Bye, bye, before you go, can I ask you a small favor? If you've enjoyed this show or any of the other episodes that you've listened to, then I'd really appreciate it if you took a couple of moments to hit subscribe. This is a great way to increase our listeners and get the word out there about all of the wonderful guests that we've had on the podcast. If you'd like to further support the show, you can buy me a coffee by going to buymeacoffeecom. Forward slash, life, health, the universe. You can find that link in the show notes. Thanks for listening.