The Midlife Rebel Podcast
How do you know if you're a Midlife Rebel?
Maybe it starts with a feeling. A growing sense of discomfort that something isn't quite right. The life you've been living might look perfectly fine from the outside, but something inside you is asking for change.
Maybe some of the rules and expectations you've lived by simply don't fit anymore.
That's where rebellion begins.
Being a Midlife Rebel isn't about breaking rules for the sake of it. It's about questioning the rules, stories and expectations that have shaped the life you've been living — and deciding for yourself what stays, what goes and what comes next.
Because rebellion can lead to personal revolution. And personal revolution creates freedom: the freedom to change your mind, rewrite your story, experiment, begin again and create a life that fits who you are now.
I'm Nadine, and each week I sit down with experts, teachers, authors, coaches, researchers, wisdom keepers and ordinary people with extraordinary stories to explore the many ways our lives can change in midlife.
We talk about identity, health and ageing, menopause, relationships, purpose, spirituality, psychology, courage, reinvention and the experiences that make us question the status quo.
These conversations bring together different perspectives, lived experiences, ideas and practical wisdom so that you feel supported as you navigate your own midlife journey — and a little less alone as you figure out what comes next.
Because there's a little bit of rebel in all of us.
Contact Nadine: https://midliferebelpodcast.com/contact
The Midlife Rebel Podcast
From Fear to Mindfulness: A Leader's Journey to Emotional Intelligence - George Brooks
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What if the key to navigating workplace stress, building authentic relationships, and making confident decisions was already within you—wired into your brain and ready to be reclaimed?
In this episode, we’re joined by George Brooks, a globally respected leadership expert with over 37 years of international consulting experience. George pulls back the curtain on how our nervous system—especially the amygdala, our brain’s fear centre—shapes how we respond under pressure, and why so many smart, capable women feel overwhelmed, overlooked, or emotionally drained at work.
For midlife women in particular, this conversation is a game-changer. Whether you’re leading a team, transitioning careers, or simply questioning what truly matters now, George offers practical tools to regulate stress, find your voice, and respond with clarity and purpose—even in the hardest conversations.
George’s “Mindbursts” method delivers short, powerful micro-practices to help with everything from performance anxiety and boundary-setting to imposter syndrome and emotional burnout.
You’ll also learn why modern attention spans are shrinking, how small emotional acknowledgments can deepen trust, and how understanding your personal “motivation matrix” can unlock lasting change—at work and in life.
This is for the woman who’s done proving herself and is ready to lead from within.
Visit our website to find out more about this week's guest.
All of our guests, including this one, are included in our Guest Directory so that you can find out more about them and the work that they do.
https://midliferebelpodcast.com/guest-directory
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Meet George Brooks: Mindfulness Pioneer
Speaker 1Welcome to Life , Health and the Universe , Bringing you stories that connect us , preventative and holistic health practices to empower us and esoteric wisdom to enlighten us . We invite you to visit our website , where you can access the podcast , watch on YouTube and find all of our guests in the guest directory . Visit lifehealththeuniversepodcastpageio . Now let's get stuck into this week's episode . If you've ever been overwhelmed by workplace stress or longed for a more human , connected way to lead , this conversation is for you .
Speaker 1My guest today is George Brooks , a globally respected thought leader , innovator and entrepreneur with over 37 years of international consulting experience . International consulting experience . George is well known for bringing mindfulness and emotional intelligence into the workplace , using practical tools that help people retrain their brains and regulate emotions , especially under pressure . He's a big thinker and a heart-led storyteller . His vision is to empower people to create positive , life-changing behavior shifts , to flip fear into motivation , to help people rebuild their human-based relational skills that are in decline due to digital communication . George , thank you so much for joining me today . We've had a little preamble off air , so we're kind of ready to get stuck in . Yeah , great to have you here .
Speaker 2Yeah , Nadine , great to be here and thanks for having me .
Speaker 1Is there anything you want to add to that intro ? I mean it was pretty abridged . You've got a lot of accolades that we could talk about for your 37 years of experience . Is there anything you want to add before we get stuck in ?
Speaker 2Well , I'm a new grandfather .
Speaker 1Oh yay , Congratulations .
Speaker 2Yeah , thank you . So I do think you know we're at different stages in life . So I've done the gerbil wheel in business and you know I've proven to be successful there . But the next segments , you know I'm doing the things we're going to talk about . We're trying to pass down a legacy to help others navigate what I found challenging . But I also have this great time in life to be with grandchildren , and so I'm loving that too .
Speaker 1Is that your first , or what have ?
Speaker 2you got Second .
Speaker 1My daughter .
Speaker 2she has a two andand-a-half-year-old and now a newborn . So yeah , it changes everything , yeah .
Speaker 1Very cool yes , very interesting that you were talking about the change of that kind of season of life , because I'm in that , you know that midlife season myself , and it is very interesting to kind of go to look back and witness that . The hamster wheel thing that we kind of all of those expectations that we have of you know , Studying , getting the career , buying the house , having the family and all of those things and then you kind of get to a point Well , I certainly have where you kind of go . What is this actually all about ? Purpose and vision start to become a bit more important .
Speaker 2Exactly it's . It's why are we here ? You know , I think those , those early years , often for many people for me get driven by having to provide and being a provider and so I didn't come from much . You know , it was a very poor upbringing , practically a single mom , and I think you know from that when you don't have much and you witness scarcity , you take on a different kind of mindset . You know , entering through college that you got to land and you got to succeed and you got to provide and you got to do what you need to do and that was a big part of my life and it was like super focused on that , I think , to the exclusion of many things .
Speaker 2But as and and then I witnessed a lot of people near me , you know , that were like that as well . We all were in . I call it the gerbil wheel . But yeah , at some point in time you have the benefit to to think differently and reflect and see why we're here . And you know how can we help others ? You know there's a friend of mine that uses a very familiar saying to protect and serve . You know , I think at the end of the day , we're here to protect and serve . And how can we serve ?
Speaker 1Yeah , and it's interesting as well , what we well , you might have a different experience of this , but um , that perception of what , what is success ? Because we hear stories of people who are extremely successful when it comes to work and business and and finances , but they feel unfulfilled . So , um , yeah , yeah , that's kind of also an interesting thing that we start to observe , I think .
Speaker 2Yeah .
Speaker 1And question .
From Career Success to Life Purpose
Speaker 2Yeah , I'll grab onto that . So this next season journey , it started with the question as to why we're here . Started with the question as as to why we're here , and I started just researching and reading and investigating and kind of came to the conclusion that that we're we're here to make other people happy , um , and the definition of happiness is making other people happy . And so now success , you know , kind of takes out another look , um , in that light , right , and it's , it's really wild . I , I , I witness it and watch it , you know , and I observe it as as we go on . But I think there's like an underlying foundation when I see people do great things , you know , that are considered success . It's often rooted in making other people happy or helping other people avoid suffering , and we do great things when we're motivated by that yes , and and it's a it kind of brings in that idea of more interconnectedness as well , doesn't it ?
Speaker 1it's like we yeah , we can't . We can't do it on our own , we need others to experience that truth , that happiness and success that you speak of .
Speaker 2Yeah , I was driving to go to a medical appointment and I was the second car in at a red light and this is a very simple example , but it's an example . There was a blind person crossing the street on a crosswalk in front of us and he made it over the curb . He was kind of elderly and just kept going straight past the sidewalk into the grass and was about to walk into a tree at the bus stop on the corner ran out and redirected the person and helped them . You know , re-navigate and go the right way and you know that's a simple definition . But they were of different ages , different ethnic backgrounds . You know one was older , someone was younger and you just jump to it and you do it and you know we're there to help . Um , I thought you know .
Speaker 1That was pretty cool yeah , that is cool and it's and it is as simple as that . I think that that's a perfect example , because we tend to over complicate things , don't we ?
Speaker 2yeah , yeah , definitely um , so what ?
Speaker 1was there anything in your particular career where , like you've had a successful 37 year career Was there ? Was there a point in your world , either personally or because you could see what was going on around you that made you kind of shift your awareness ?
Speaker 2Yeah , well , there's one thing that shifted my career and there's another thing that shifted my awareness . So let me answer the question you asked shifted my awareness . So , towards the last 12 years of my career , I became a leader internationally , over many countries , and so there's hundreds and thousands of people underneath you know , working with you , part of your team , and what I witnessed , you know , as a leader , one role when you lead a unit is you know you're there to protect your employees , right ? So there's a lot of different parts of a business and everyone is coming at issues or challenges from you know what their job is , whether it's to help a client or grow a geography , or HR to enforce policies . You know my role was to grow our business , but also was to protect our people , and so , with that , you know when you stay in touch with people , you know you have to manage all these escalations , and so I would spend big chunks of my day , you know , walking people off the ledge .
Speaker 2You know emotionally they . You know we're getting caught up in so many things usually around exclusion not being invited to a conference , a meeting , a workshop , not participating in strategy development , or you know not being heard , or you know the improper teaming , you teaming within groups and it's over and over . And so you're on the other end of a phone call trying to coach and help people and it got to the point where my Saturday mornings I would take my dog for a walk out in the woods and spend hours upon hours upon hours upon hours just down the line talking to people . And then that's when it hit me . You know I wasn't a great master at navigating all the things they were navigating , but I kind of had enough . You know , my wife was , is really seasoned , and people would always ask like what does Beth say ? But I also have a good team around me that I'd bounce things off of and gave good advice .
Speaker 2But then I started thinking I need to kind of learn more about this emotional regulation , emotional management and how to detach and look at what's happening to you and why is it happening to you and can you take a different path . So I would say it's all those escalations and the amount of time I had to spend , especially when triangulation was involved , if there was three parties , so somebody goes behind someone's back to talk about something without including them . Now you got one , two , three people to navigate . I mean , it's almost exhausting talking about it now , right , and so what if I said I said that could we help people just avoid this ? Like if they can learn themselves to self-regulate , self-manage , become more aware and recognize the traps that their brain is sending them into and , you know , they can start developing . You know more regulation and management of these trigger points . Wouldn't that be great ? And that's when I started studying and looking into . You know different , different um growth mechanisms .
Speaker 1you know yeah , cool , interesting that you say , uh , that the one of the key words I think you mentioned was exclusion , and I think that this plays quite well into , uh , the work that you've done with how our brain functions . Yeah , that kind of idea of not being part of the tribe is very primal , isn't it ? And from what you've referenced , it sounds like that's what people are experiencing or were experiencing in your workplace .
Speaker 2I would say that one comes top of mind . There's , there's , there's many other ones too , but that one for I think it's , it's probably one of the strongest reactions possible . That you know , being excluded , you know is , is very hard and and you know , and it just hits real hard , it's a little different than , oh , there's things changing and I'm unfamiliar with it and not comfortable . That's a little lighter than saying , oh , I'm excluded , right , and it's very strong , yeah , and it's very deep . But the counterbalance to that is something you mentioned is , you know , one of the techniques I saw is the concept of common humanity ,
Workplace Stress and Emotional Regulation
Speaker 2is , you know , when we find an intersection where we have shared experiences or shared desires or shared beliefs with other people , there's a connection that's made , you know , goes to inclusion .
Speaker 2So our brain is wired . You know , way back when , like you said , we had tribes . You know , way back when , like you said , we had tribes , you know we had um cliques . You know there were small communities and they and people were always judging if somebody should be a part of the group , are they a danger to the group or could they help the group ? And you know , if you ever were expelled from the group , that meant almost certain death , of being on your own right , and it's like so there's this concept of all eyes on me , you know , being under judgment , and if you're excluded , it could , you know , turn out bad . Well , guess what ? Our brain is still processing that way . So if you're not involved in something , you're thinking like , okay , I'm , I'm at risk , and fear kicks in , and it's a very strong feeling .
Speaker 2Um , but to counteract that which is really interesting , um , I did some studying under , um , uh , the compassion center at emory University . There's several techniques common humanity , where , if you search for have you ever met somebody ? And your small talk is you find something in common . Right , you know either the same sports team , or where you grew up , or where you know people , or this , that , and as soon as you latch onto that band , you kind of connect with it and go with it . And that is one of the steps to go from it , like you know , exclusion to inclusion , where you go from the outer circle I don't know you to the inner circle , while we share something in common . Does that make sense ?
Speaker 1yes , definitely yeah , and so did you . You did you start learning about this stuff and then implementing it into your teams or your team , yeah , so this .
Speaker 2This is interesting . So I probably started studying this four years the back end , four years of my career and there were techniques I definitely used and implemented indirectly , not as a formal practice , but part of coaching , part of , you know , regulation , management and things like that . But when I retired I went all in and I actually think that now , four years after I retired , if I was back in those roles you know , if success is defined as growth and you know all the things that happened I think we would have maybe done better but even enjoyed it more . That makes sense , you know . And so , yeah , I did use some of it , I learned a lot of it . I don't want to think that , hey , this guy was the perfect leader . No , I wasn't , had great advisors , but I think there's a chance now , after doing all these deep dives , to kind of go back and even do it better . But one of the techniques I personally used , which was interesting and deployed , was loving kindness .
Speaker 2So if you think of being a business unit leader in a firm and we were merging a lot of business units together to consolidate expertise and people joined the firm in those other units and now you're saying come here , we're doing this and they were like that's not why I joined and it's a different role . My responsibilities are changing , I have to do a lot of things I'm uncomfortable with , and so even on paper it looked great , but in their heads they were having trouble with it , and some people , you know , tried to undermine the strategy . And this too shall pass , don't worry about it , don't get too caught up in it . And I was catching wind of a lot of , you know , just just backlash , and and people say , just just just don't , don't worry about what george was trying to do , it's going to go away . Um , you know you're left unaddressed . Your automatic response is you're going to be frustrated , you're going to be angry .
Speaker 2You know you're going to be frustrated . You're going to be angry . You know you're going to want to , um , you know , do something to that that person to either like , hit the exit bus and like , get on or , you know , get with it or get out of it , and you know some businesses do that . But , um , my initial reaction was of loving kindness .
Speaker 2Um , there's a loving kindness meditation where you wish upon yourself and your loved ones or people you're in conflict with , may you be healthy , may you be happy , may you be safe , may you be peaceful , may you be prosperous , may you live in harmony with others . And as I did that , I would think about those people you know that were , were undermining me , and I would , I would send them loving kindness because I would envision them , you know , being like in the bear trap and they're late , con , and they're in pain and they're frustrated and you know they're kind of like lashing out , they're not in a good moment in their life , and that helped me emotionally , you know . Have a better day and deal with that situation . And then I had other techniques to use . I'm just giving you an example , one that I kind of use quite a bit .
Speaker 1I kind of use quite a bit , yeah , it just being able to tap into that in the moment , especially if something is , you know , if it feels like there's conflict , um , it kind of switches on for you a different , different story , I guess , rather than getting caught up in the conflict . But there's quite a skill , isn't there , in going hang on a minute . I could . I could react in the old way , or yeah .
Speaker 1I can use the new way is that . Is that just a , just a like ? Is there anything that you did did specifically to to assist you with that , or was it because it was much more front of mind at that point in your career ?
Speaker 2Yeah , I think , and the way I developed these mind bursts is all of them are set triggers that we all , universally , through our subconscious , respond the same way . And so that's why they they had to go through that filter . You know , I didn't because if somebody had a difficult childhood or picked down the gym class or things like that , that that you know . No , these are , these are ones that , um , we're all gonna experience a trigger in the workplace situation and we're all gonna respond the same way because our amygdala , you know , and all these are amygdala driven responds a certain way our brain tries to keep us safe , tries to protect us , tries to deal with things expediently and tries to , you know , have fast answers , move us to pleasure . And so I think the trick is to just recognize the trigger , recognize what's happening , so then you can pause and move into a different response . Right , and you know so , because there's a difference between , if you study heavily in mindfulness , I think you'll get there I'm trying to shortcut it real fast , like don't have a generic rule or understanding of what to do , and then you try to figure out when it applies . So in my case , you know if new change is rolling out or if you're anxious about being laid off or you have to give a speech or a presentation or you're going to miss a deadline . All these are triggers that you know you would say oh , I remember that I can go do a quick . That you know you would say oh , I remember that I can go do a quick . You know 10 minute kind of micro learning course on that .
Speaker 2Here's what's happening to my brain . I'm about to miss the deadline , I'm freaking out , I don't want to bring it up , I don't want to go to gave it to me and let them know , because then they're going to think all these negative things of me you're not being capable or whatever . And that's where our brain sends us . And then you know the person giving the deadline , probably . You know there's all kinds of biases that impact deadline making , which is really wild . We have an overestimation bias that things will get done fast and cheap . You know , in some technology work plans , like 99% of the time deadlines are missed because of these biases . And I call them all out , but it's really well . So I kind of named them and said this is when you need to do the switch . So you know , and I'm trying to capture the ones that are more prevalent than not .
Speaker 1Okay , yeah , so that was great . You've kind of given us some really good examples of what sort of what people might be experiencing in the workplace and I guess , like , if you're in a corporate environment , you need you need efficiency , right so people don't want to go on a mindfulness course probably no and that .
Speaker 2See that and that . That's because you're spot on . That's exactly it , because I've also learned . It's not I know we're using the word mindfulness , but these solutions integrate . It starts with neuroscience , goes into behavioral psychology , emotional regulation , subconscious thought , identification , growth , mindset , moments that matter , mindfulness All that is aggregated to solving this issue . So and it's really wild , but that's if I had one gift in the world is I can integrate a lot of things and bring them together . So , you know , in my found fascinating is these are the things that I was doing a lot of mentoring on
The Brain Science Behind Our Reactions
Speaker 2when I unpacked them and did the research .
Speaker 2And it starts with neuroscience , because which part of the brain is being activated by the trigger ? And so I went and did all these and then I stepped back and looked at them and I was my jaw dropped . I was like , oh my gosh , every single one of these situations is activates your amygdala , which is your fight flight , freeze part of your brain , or your reptilian brain . And what's really wild when you look at neuroscience , when your amygdala is activated , you have zero capability of thinking in your prefrontal cortex . Your amygdala is just driving immediate reactions and behaviors . And so when you find out , someone went behind your back to your boss . You're like my god , that's it , I'm after them . They're gonna be sorry . They did this , you know , and that's what your brain's trying to protect . You right in react , and so I started looking at what's the impact of of being on your amygdala and it's really wild , you know .
Speaker 2There's a lot of negative consequences of you know . One of them is really important . It suppresses trust , which is really important in business . But I just recently was talking to a law firm and I tried to see so for a lawyer , right , who deals with clients that are usually at conflict , right , and or litigation , you know , and or the pressures of selling and collecting and billing and mentoring and getting things right . You think of a lawyer as a pretty stressful situation . So , best estimates , they're driving their day because of work . 30 to 40% of their day they're driving from their fear center fight , flight , freeze because of all these . Now you take what's happening in the outside world and being connected to social media and reading the news and seeing the world events , and then you add family matters and financial matters and relational matters . Now you're up to 70 to 80 percent of your day is being driven off your fear center .
Speaker 2I don't know if people understand that . I didn't understand that until I did all this work and so I went back and you know , I started thinking emotionally drawn to . Are you making the best decisions ? Are you becoming more fatigued ? Are you having a hard time sleeping ? Are you becoming more forgetful ? Inability to concentrate ? Are you moving more towards alcohol or other kinds of coping mechanisms ? Right . Are you neglecting self-care ? And I just define my entire existence in these roles , right ? And then you got a statistic 94% of American workers report feeling chronic stress at work and the World Health Organization named workplace stress as a chronic disease . Wow , and I'm sitting here saying , okay , my little flag is saying because we're all running around on , fight , flight , freeze .
Speaker 2We don't know when to pause , when to calm the amygdala , and what's really wild . And the reason why you need neuroscience is because if you try coping mechanisms that are geared or designed for your prefrontal cortex , for your thinking part of the brain , they won't work . The amygdala only comes based on suppressing the parasympathetic nervous system which is freaking out , it's making you sweat , your heart rate , your pulmonary system . Right , you can only use the . One of the major ways is the sympathetic nervous system , and there's a very small handful of ways to activate that .
Speaker 2So if you're at work or like I , like this one fear of flying . Fear of flying is amygdala based . Oh , planes are safe . Oh , look at the history of you know , safety versus a car . You know , and you can give all the stats in the world , but guess what , they're not hearing it . They're already in fight or flight . You got to get them to calm down and there's a thing called exposure therapy . Exposure therapy . But you know one way to get around that flight . If it's amygdala driven , that fear is , you know , practice techniques to calm yourself while on the plane . But then there's an association oh , I flew , there was a good outcome why , I flew again .
Speaker 2There was a good outcome . I flew again there's a good outcome . You know , or blew again , there was a good outcome . You know , or I'm afraid of spiders . I touched a spider , nothing happened . And you know , after repeated exposure to something you kind of get out of it right , and so I think we're going to continue being into chronic stress in the workplace and anxiety unless we're helping people identify what's happening to them and , in these triggers , know what to do to calm down and then , from there , take a pause and have a different response that your subconscious is telling you to do . It's just one , two , three . What's happening ? Calm , activate the brain . I can respond differently because in this situation that subconscious response fight-flight-freeze is not going to serve me well . Thank you , brain . I'm okay . I'm gonna treat this person with loving-kindness .
Speaker 1I'm a calmly go to the boss and see what happened and I'm gonna calmly approach them and see what was so bad that they couldn't approach me and maybe do it different in the future yeah , and then from that experience they get the proof that that was a great approach to do , like when you were talking about the flight , uh , you , know you fly , you're safe , you fly again , you're safe , you fly again , you're safe , and you build up that kind of proof that that is a safe experience .
Speaker 2Yeah , exactly yeah , performing high pressure kind of work environment and an ownership model of being in a partnership which brings on a lot more fiscal responsibility because you have no outside money , investments , no loans , and so you're in that and you're witnessing all this happening and you're trying to help people and trying to help yourself and learn what's going on and then have that ability to get deep into mindfulness meditation . And then I also got certified in compassion training and with that you know that's years of study and tests and you know you have to go through a lot of training and you know . Then you start becoming curious and you start like reading more and more , connecting more and more dots . So what I I thought and again this is post-career we talked about the next stage is can I take all this knowledge and bridge it to business ? Because business people don't know this bucket and most people deep in this bucket never worked in business .
Speaker 1Yeah .
Speaker 2And I can immediately see this connection here and I said , hey , you know , we can do things different . Then if this all seems to make sense is are people motivated to help themselves ? So you're smiling . What do you think about that ? Like , I mean , and you do a lot of training and things , right , I mean what ? What ? Like , see , I think motivation . You know , obviously there's motivation if you go so far and there's so much accumulated anxiety and you hit a wall and you you can't perform right . But we don't want that as the motivation , you know , um , so what are your thoughts ?
Speaker 1gosh , it's such a tricky one , like , to a degree , it can be quite person dependent . I think , probably in an environment like you are in , where you're a leader , if you integrate it as like a kind of like a prerequisite or an expectation that this is part of the culture of the workplace , I think that that would probably um have a strong influence . Um , but , yeah , it's it , and I I actually did a little bit of work in coaching with habits and behavior and really loved James Clear , which you've probably heard of , james Clear with Atomic Habits and that kind of idea of you know , like you've said , it's an epidemic , so something has to give because people can't go on living in that way , and we see that through um issues with health . Right , chronic , most chronic disease is is , uh , the the main contributor is stress , and it's like that . It's the the one
Creating Sustainable Habits and Motivation
Speaker 1thing that people kind of go . Oh , you know , if they're not stressed , then they're not working hard enough , and so it's changing that whole perception , isn't it ?
Speaker 1yeah , yeah but we definitely work , work with people . Um , we worked in sydney . We've moved out into the countryside now . Um , when we worked in sydney , we were coaching a lot of professionals . You know , corporate and stress is a massive . Yeah , just just this thing causes heart disease , it causes high blood pressure , it causes you know , it contributes to diabetes poor sleep and then you know you've mentioned some of these things already . Yeah , so I think you're you're at the forefront of this really for for trying to change the culture of business .
Speaker 2Yeah , let me , let me thank you . So there's a couple of modules . So I had a meeting with the CEO of a health system and the topic was bringing compassion into the workplace and there's something like 80 studies . There's a book called Compassionomics and 80 studies of the value of compassion in health care and , you know , getting physicians and health care workers to understand and exhibit compassion in the delivery of care , on the patients , on their outcomes as well , improved medical outcomes , improved patient experience , improved physician experience as well , and , you know , fewer lawsuits and like it's . It's just a dream come true .
Speaker 2And then physicians said , well , we don't have time . And they did a study and they said you know , ask , allowing a patient to ask a question and answer it , you know , usually goes no more than six questions and takes five and a half minutes , you know . So you know , and you leave the patient saying we're in this together . Very simple change in mindset , perspectives . But that CEO had a great question . So he said how am I going to get our staff to practice this , to develop these new skills and habits ? And I said what do you mean ? He goes . It was a twofold question . One was you know , we know , it's important to eat fruit and vegetables .
Speaker 2We know it's important to exercise , we know it's important to floss , but you know we kind of like aren't all doing that , um and and then how do you find the time to do it ? Carve off time , it's a question . So I went . That gets me going , so I unpack . How do you , how do you create a sustainable habit ? And whether it's to practice meditation or practice these mind bursts , which aren't most important thing , is not just meditating . The most important thing in in in this algorithm to create these new habits is to take , you know , a different perspective , to do that mind shift , choose differently and experience a different emotion and behavior . Right , that's the outcome , and you have to take action . Once you take action , that's a different action and you experience a different emotion , then you have a shift . It's not reading about it , okay , so put all that there . So now you know how do you get people to do these things . What are these things ? Well , you know to do the fruits and vegetables , to take care of your health , to stay on diets , practice , you know , these mind bursts quit drinking is another one , right . And so how do so ? Start with with atomic habits , kind of go through everything you know . Take all this other stuff I'm learning along the way , and so I put together a module , how to create sustainable habits . But what ? What everyone wants ? The shortcut answer and um , if you remember atomic habits , there's a lot of steps and there's all these reinforcements sustaining it . So I got a lot there and I'm like , okay , and nothing wrong with that , I get that , that's there . But I found , is there a possibility in some circumstances to get somewhere quick ? I put together something called a motivation matrix , so it's just four boxes top left to make yourself happy . I put together something called a motivation matrix , so it's just four boxes Top left to make yourself happy , bottom left for you to avoid suffering . Bottom right to make others happy . Bottom right to help others see suffering , to stop the suffering of others . I'm happy , I'm not suffering , I make other people happy , I stop the suffering of others . And so then I took alcohol consumption and , and , and I found you know what would motivate you to quit drinking alcohol ? Well , do you want to feel better , not be hungover ? You know , top left , bottom left , avoid hangovers . You know , top left , avoid embarrassing situations . You know , you know . But could you make others happy or could you help others avoid suffering ? What I found is that bottom right quadrant of if your drinking causes others to suffer , causes other people to be on eggshells , causes other people to be disappointed in you . Be on eggshells causes other people to be disappointed in you or your behavior changes such that they're uncomfortable . And if those people are someone you care about , is that enough motivation to just stop ? And it was really wild .
Speaker 2In the module I list about 12 famous people who I looked up . All cited that as their reason for quitting alcohol immediately . Wow , immediately . Yeah , so there was .
Speaker 2I'm not going to start naming names on a podcast , but it's in in the pot , it's in my mind burst . You know , there's one famous actor , you know who really was , have a spell or , you know , was always in the news about being out there and being crazy . And um drove his daughter to school in the mornings and one morning couldn't drive because he had a couple of vodkas and had a driver drive and he sat in the passenger seat . She was in the back and she was so disappointed and said , oh , dad , like not again . He quit that moment and has never drank since . And this is like 30 to 40 years of partying , um , you know .
Speaker 2And there was one after another , after another , all saying that my two young boys , my family , my career , my this , my that , um , you know I and you know I think you know so , when it comes to mindsets and motivation and it comes back to why we exist and what drives us , let me talk about being happy , making other people happy . We make other people happy by helping them , you know , avoid suffering or relieve their suffering . Now especially , I think if you grew up in a situation where somebody drank in your family and you were the recipient of the person , you were suffering because of their behavior . You were humiliated , and now you're doing it to somebody else . That's super powerful . You know it'll like you're going to say am I just being someone else over again here ? And you know ? So ? I'm not saying I'm sure . It's way more complicated than that . There's probably all kinds of substance abuse people out there .
Speaker 1But that's worked for you .
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah , and it's out there , and I just think that our minds could be very powerful and if we tap into the right motivations , um , you know we can . We can change our behaviors and it could be pretty dramatic and quick , you know yeah , yeah , definitely , and it's .
Speaker 1I love that , know you're offering a perspective that's worked for you and that you're sharing that . And there are so many tools aren't there ? So you know , the James Clear might work for one person , the habit stacking sort of thing , but not might not work for the for the next . The motivation matrix may work for one person , but it's like you can cherry pick right as well . Um , okay , so you've mentioned mind bursts and this is uh your gift to uh the world right now . Um , can you talk us through a bit more specifically what Mindbursts are ? You've sort of discussed , you know what's driven you to create this .
Speaker 2Is it a program
Building Trust Through Active Listening
Speaker 2or yeah , so the company you know I started is called Sympatico Advisory and on the website Sympatico Advisory it directs you to a section called Mind Bursts and what these are are micro learning solutions . So in 10 minutes time , you know , I think you can go into a mind burst and understand what's happening to you , why it's happening and what you can do about it . There'll be a meditation that will do the amygdala calling and there , quickly , will be in recommended actions to take those actions , to choose a different behavior , a different response with a different emotion , and it encourages you to reflect upon . Well , how did that work for me ? I just experienced the shift . And then there's a cheat sheet in there , an infographic that summarizes the whole teaching out one piece of paper so you could just put on the edge of your desk . So it's an algorithm I created . I already went through all the details of neurology and that , but the idea was can you bring known triggers with an integrated expedient response minutes ? And so if you use it so I'm experiencing layoff anxiety , you use it , so I'm experiencing layoff anxiety , I'm gonna I'm gonna probably take ten minutes to understand the positioning of it , what's happening and why , but then the practice thereafter you go back , it's probably .
Speaker 2The practice is about ten minutes in itself too . You don't need to do the first ten anymore and you know it will help you calm down and take some good actions which are different than the actions that your subconscious would lead you to do . Outcome and same thing if you have to give a presentation or do a public speaking or you have trouble with deadlines . These are all there . So micro learning solutions help you through it . They're all free , right . You can just access them , use them . They're all free , right . You can just access them , use them . So if you just use them once , it's okay . It helped you , it de-escalated . But if you so choose , you can continue to practice it for a week or two , and then you have the ability to create a habit yeah through the repetition , and so it's inviting you to have a change .
Speaker 2But I understand , in today's society , you know , maybe not everyone's into habit changes , like we said , or you know we just want that quick fix , but so it could serve either way . Maybe you don't get , you don't do a lot of speeches , or you don't have to give a lot of presentations . You can use it once . But if you do do a lot or you're newly promoted and you need to learn to do a lot , then this will help you , you know , bypass that anxiety . Maybe after two weeks of practice , you you no longer will be fearful of making a presentation . You know , and you'll know how to craft and create the presentation , how to prepare for delivery and what to do on stage when your mind starts playing games on you , right , um , yeah , so I I think they're pretty cool . I wish I had these . Um , I learned a lot building them , like I said after the fact . And so we created three categories better me , better we and better sales . And better me is more around triggers that are intrapersonal , that we start ruminating and doing cascading thoughts . Better we are the kinds of things at work that are relational between people , and better sales is the category of its own . When I unpack that you know that was a request to build those it was amazing to me how this algorithm worked in that space as well . And on better sales .
Speaker 2There's two big components . One is we're often hesitant or reluctant in the sales process . We get a big goal , fear comes in and we kind of defer action , we keep putting things off , we do other things than get to what we need to do . Maybe we don't follow up , we don't reach out , we don't cold call , we don't write that email . You know I need to get back to do . Maybe we don't follow up , we don't reach out , we don't cold call , we don't write that email . You know I need to get back to someone . While you know , and we and I found that what our brain is doing is trying to protect us because there's these things called anticipatory anxieties anxieties there's the possibility of failure , there's the possibility of rejection and you know we have a correlation between our self-esteem and achievement and if there's a possibility we won't achieve , our brain doesn't want our self-esteem to get hit and these are the kinds of things that are causing this hesitation .
Speaker 2I found that wild because I'm like who hasn't been brought up ? You know , between linking self-esteem to achievement .
Speaker 2And that's yeah maybe that's okay Right . Self-esteem to achievement and that's yeah . Maybe that's okay right . But you also can't have the yo-yo go down when you don't achieve to lose your self-esteem , meaning you gotta stay steady , eddie , and you gotta find other reasons for self-worth . You are , you are more than your sales score . You know um scotty scheffler's wife . He's the world's number one golfer , he said . She said , scotty , you are a great man and in the eyes of god you are more than your golf score yeah you know , and we got to anchor in on these things .
Speaker 2And so I found , you know , it's not all salespeople hesitate , I'm sure , seasoned people , maybe people new to it , or certain people , owners . I didn't understand it . I found I found out that , yeah , I was guilty of all that and then , but you know , you find different ways to power through . And then the second group in sales which I found kind of , and this is unique and different . But if you need to develop a trusted relationship with somebody , a meaningful relationship , an authentic relationship , you know what are the skills or what has to happen between two people for that to happen . And I broke it down into four components First , is you got to be able to pay attention to someone . Second , is you need to practice active listening or mindful listening . Third , you need to be able to exhibit empathy . And fourth , you need to truly care to help that person solve their pain point . Now let's go backwards . Where is the human brain today in those four buckets ? So , nadine , what do you think our attention span is as a human ?
Speaker 1I definitely , I don't know . I don't think it's very good and I definitely have experienced in my lifetime a decrease in my attention .
Speaker 2Um yeah , so I mean , I know that it's because of technology . Exactly so . Our attention span is down on average to 5.8 seconds . Wow , a goldfish has an attention span higher than ours .
Speaker 1I shouldn't laugh , but that's a great comparison . Yeah , yeah . It's pretty scary , do you have ?
Speaker 2a dog . Yeah , she's got a better attention span than me . She's probably got an attention span of about three and a half minutes , wow , and if you're trying to train a dog , they'll , they'll pay attention , yeah . So if you're entering into a relationship , you're in a meeting , you got maybe a group of people . If , if your mind starts to wander and you're thinking , oh , when I come up , what am I going to say , I'm thinking to respond , I'm like , oh , what did that guy just ? Oh , my god , what the hell , what's this ? And look at them . You're not dialed in . And do you think someone on the other end knows you're not paying attention ? I mean , that's the . The very first thing that turns somebody off is to not pay attention . The very first thing you can do probably one of the most important things you can ever do to another human being is give your full and undivided attention yeah right .
Speaker 2You know your partner walks in , shut the computer down , put the phone down . You know eye to eye contact , pay attention , okay . Second thing in the in the relationship , is mindful listening , or active listening , not just listening to their words , but how they're saying it , their emotions . You know , listen with your mind , your heart and your stomach . And the most powerful thing you can do when you're listening empathetically is , you know , to say to someone wow , you must feel proud or you must feel scared . Proud or you must feel scared . When you acknowledge their emotions , it takes things to a totally different level . Um so , yeah we're .
Speaker 2We're into paying attention , mindful empathy , feeling what they're feeling , saying it . And then , fourth , you can sell to just deliver . You can sell to me the quota . I mean , most sales programs tell you to understand their pain points , but are you understanding their pain points to just get something there ?
Speaker 1Or are you ?
Speaker 2understanding their pain points because you really care in that motivation matrix to alleviate their suffering . There's a little bit of a difference there and you know , when I saw the strongest relationships , you know we hired so many people and clients followed them . It's because they've been through war together and they shared a common experience and they developed , you know , that tightness of relationship due to solving , you know , whatever they had to solve together and they had trust in each other . That's different than oh , you were there , you had a great thing and it worked . So I try to break it down into those components about truly enhancing relational capabilities . And then there's another bucket which I didn't even know and I was fairly good at selling that something like 95% of sales are based off of a person's emotions .
Speaker 1Right .
Speaker 2Yeah , or business's emotions . So I put together a program that says listen for these cues , you know by the person . Like a person may want a promotion , a person may desire to know the next innovative thing . A person may be super risk adverse , but then the company may be this . Understand their emotional drivers and then frame what you have to help solve those emotional needs . Big section on that Third section is just asking difficult questions .
Speaker 2Our brain stops us from certain questions around what's the decision-making process ? Who are the decision-makers ? What kind of budget do you have ? Who else is competing ? We don't . Maybe when your seasons are further along you get comfortable with that . But you know there's we . We tend to shy away from that . So there's cognitive reframing to help you develop , you know , the ability to ask these questions and then managing self-doubt . So that's the last sales one , the second one , and so , yeah , these are better me , better we , better sales . I think these can only help . Some people say , oh , this is all bread and butter , and maybe it is . But for some people , like even for me throughout my career , it wasn't bread and butter for me . I didn't know that . Some people know pieces of this , but it's all there in one spot you put it in one spot .
Speaker 1It's all there for you . Yeah , amazing . I think the first three things that you said for the sales listening , empathy and reaffirming how someone's feeling they're really good parenting tips too put your phone down , close your computer , listen , affirm what the child's saying . Then you can get what , what you need from from your , from your child , usually and you're saying that , I'm thinking like , yep , I was a terrible parent .
Speaker 2Did I really try to understand where my kids coming from ?
Speaker 1and you know you know they're .
Speaker 2You know , in that fast paced , yeah , I wasn't , my eq emotional intelligence probably at that stage in life wasn't there . You know these are things you know like I wish you could put on the people , like you know . But you're right , these aren't um just for work . They're , you know you're , you're whatever you're . You know you gotta like I don't know how many times you have a group of friends , um , you know I I hear stories . You know people say we got , you know people meet every wednesday . There might be a church group and there's , you know , like 12 people meeting and then somehow people find out there's the core four and they're off doing something else and there we go again , we got , we got , we got exclusion Right .
Speaker 1Yeah , yeah Right .
Speaker 2It happens in all facets in life , right and , and you know there's . There's another module I did and it's not work related but it carries over into work is creating sustainable habits around credit card debt sustainable habits around credit card debt , and sorry , I missed it .
Speaker 1Sustainable habits , oh , credit card debt . Yes , I saw that one on there .
Speaker 2Yeah this was another fascinating one and I do think you know the stress of um debt carries over , impacts your performance indirectly , right , so put it in there anyway . It's one that came up and people asked me about Um , so this is another , I think , for me eye opener , super fascinating Um and I broke it down in asking people where you spend and there's that automatic I'm spending like you're not sitting there rationalizing it . It's came up with three categories and see if they hit home . Right , maybe ? Yeah , um number one it's been a long day , I'm tired . Let's order out . Let's eat out . Does that hit home ?
Speaker 1yeah , we don't do it very often , but we would have when we lived in the city .
Speaker 2Yeah , it depends what you have access to . Yeah , you're real um . The second one is um . I deserve it . You justify justify it .
Speaker 1Yep .
Speaker 2The third one is and you don't need to do this one a lot , but when you do do it , you'll be paying for it a long time . I call it the luxury upgrade . So can't afford it . But let's just travel first class , let's stay at a better hotel , let's you know , get the Audi instead of the BMW . These luxury upgrades , you know it's something you don't buy a car a lot , you don't travel a lot , but when you do , you'll be paying for that for four years . It's a big one .
Speaker 2It's not like these hundred little eat-outs , you know , or the dozens that justify it's few , but they're the big ones . And then you stack these three up all of a sudden , you know so , in the state , you can get in a lot of trouble right . Well , 83% of people have extended credit card issues .
Speaker 1Yeah 83% . It's a big problem .
Speaker 2Yeah , and a lot of economies are running off this yeah .
Speaker 1Yeah , right , yeah .
Speaker 2Okay , so , not to bore you , I broke them down and so I went back to the neuroscience . What's happening in your brain ? It's been a long day , I'm tired , let's eat up . Well , what did I say ? Our brain default mechanism is right . It's ease , comfort , immediate pleasure , and you experience an emotional reward . So if you don't stop and think
Mindbursts: Microlearning for Better Living
Speaker 2, like I'm saying now , here's a trigger , and we got that little infographic , the one pager .
Speaker 2What's happening in your brain ? There's these cognitive biases that your brain is relying on to respond to that thought . And you're going out , and or you're having a couple of cocktails , right , and you're going out , and , or you're having a couple of cocktails , right , and you're spending . And if you , you know , I almost feel like you need to take the infographic and put it on your garage door or by your phone and just stop and think about it . Like , am I doing this ? It's okay , I'm not saying don't do it , but you're doing it all the time . All of a sudden , there's eating out , adding up . You know , especially nowadays , right on the bill .
Speaker 2But explain the cognitive biases that are driving these decisions . If you don't intervene , there's 100% chance you're going to be , though you have no choice . It's going to happen . Your brain takes you there . So if you're not like stopping , okay . Second one um , the luxury or the luxury upgrade is even worse because I name about 10 unconscious biases that come into play . And it's very clear to me after I listed all those out that every advertiser in the world knows about those 10 cognitive biases and everything we hear and see is like kidding at your biases . And you see this famous person looking good being there .
Speaker 1Friends posting , you know you need it , you need it , you need to keep up , yeah yeah , and everything's there , and I'm like , oh my god , there's a perfect map .
Speaker 2They're just playing with your brain . They know it and you have like almost no defense mechanism . If you don't opt out , it's just gonna happen . And it's the same thing with justifying it too .
Speaker 2There's very similar biases , but I lay them all out , about 17 biases between those three . This is what you're , you're . You know% of our decisions during the day are made by our unconscious mind , and that's necessary because we can't make all these decisions right . But where does the unconscious mind lead you and does it serve you well ? And the unconscious mind has all these shortcuts called biases . They take these shortcuts and you know they're going to make you feel good , they're going to bring it fast and you gotta like , know when to kind of jump in and uh , you know , I thought that was kind of fascinating for me too .
Speaker 2I don't , you know , I , I don't know if I don't think we ever really got into a lot of credit card debt and along our journey . But , um , you know , I , I know there's a lot of people that have and , uh , I think these things just being aware of it , and you know , um , you know , maybe jumping in . I don't know , I'm not saying these are amygdala driven , but they are subconscious driven . You know , with the biases , and then bam , you're , it's a behavioral thing as well , isn't it ?
Speaker 1if you think back to like I was just thinking about when we used to get paid , uh , well , we , I used to get a pay packet with the cash in it right back in the day , um , and so you have your cash and you , when it's gone , it's gone . But you don't see that when you've got a credit card , it's just a piece of plastic and you just , you can just kind of , you don't have that emotional attachment to like I've worked , I've earned this amount of money or you know , going to even go into a machine , a tele machine , to withdraw cash . You don't really do it anymore , so you don't have that kind of connection or like of the separate you know , separate yourself from that .
Speaker 1That money it's just a just a habitual yeah , instant gratification thing , playing , not playing on that part of the brain yeah , exactly , and then and then you mentioned behavior and the ease .
Speaker 2so I was at yeah , um , I was at a restaurant with my wife and I have this wallet where people can't pick up your magnetic strip . It's just a little compartment , a little suitcase wallet . You open it up and it closes . You put your credit cards in there . The person serving the table saw the wallet with the credit cards and thought , wow , that'd be pretty cool to have , but I don't really carry a wallet . It's okay , they use Apple Pay their phone yeah .
Speaker 2Forget the money thing . Like you just said , you're like , yeah , this phone's got like unlimited , like it's buying all this stuff , yeah , yeah .
Speaker 1Yeah , that's amazing yeah even easier connection from . You know the fact that you've had to put in hours and hours of work to earn the money or not yeah , yeah , we have um yes , well , so you've got all bases covered with Mindburst .
Speaker 1We've kind of just tipped over our hour and I'm conscious of our time together coming to a close , so we're going to send the listeners to Simpatico , the website with Mindburst . We've also got a guest directory , so we'll put your profile in there with all of the links so that people can access it easily and find out more about what you're doing . As we close , if you could leave our audience with like one thought about living and leading with more heart , what would it be ?
Speaker 2Well , I have two thoughts . Um , well , I have two thoughts . If I could give one thought from all the mind bursts is when you're under stress , if you're not in immediate physical harm or danger , do the opposite of what you're thinking . Okay , do the opposite , because the bottom line is , in every one of these , the recommendation is to just do the opposite . Okay , crazy thing , but I started doing that and like , whenever you're flustered and this or that , just do the opposite . Okay , you know , I mean , actually , in Seinfeld there's an episode where , where George did the opposite became wildly successful and it was really . I'll play on this , but I think on .
Speaker 2You know , what I learned , you know from the heart is and maybe this there's another episode to talk about this but where this this took me is like the , the next chapter , even after this , is the more we try to control and create or dictate and get locked on to things , you know , the more we're going to be disappointed and frustrated .
Speaker 2And the more we're open , you know , the more we're going to be disappointed and frustrated and the more we're open , you know , to the world or the universe , or God sending us answers versus us trying to create them and creating that open path . You know to use these mind bursts to get the noise out , you know , to clear our minds and to be present , and while we're present , we can then be more receptive to guidance that would be forthcoming . And I think , when people get into this presence , there's miracles where , you know , bodies are healed , self-healed , right , and there's there's miracles on , you know ,
Final Thoughts: Do the Opposite
Speaker 2relationships being solved or or finding the right direction . And you know , I think what we created is so much noise it blocked our ability to kind of go in that direction , and so this is just one of the tools , many of these to become present . But there's even something better on the other side of fear , which is this opportunity , you know , to live a good whole life .
Speaker 1Love it . That's beautiful . What a great way to end , George . Thank you so much for joining me today . I've loved our conversation . Yeah , I really appreciate your time yeah , likewise .
Speaker 1Thank you so much , this was fun before you go , can I ask you a small favor . If you've enjoyed this show or any of the other episodes that you've listened to , then I'd really appreciate it if you took a couple of moments to hit subscribe . This is a great way to increase our listeners and get the word out there about all of the wonderful guests that we've had on the podcast . If you'd like to further support the show , you can buy me a coffee by going to buymeacoffeecom . Forward slash , life , health , the universe . You can find that link in the show notes . Thanks for listening .