Life, Health & The Universe - A Journey From Midlife Crisis to Midlife Awakening

Reclaiming Joy After Religion: Carolyn Durrant on Midlife Reinvention, Spiritual Awakening & Living Your Truth

• Nadine Shaw - Gene Keys Guide, Astrologer, Human Design Enthusiast, Midlife Wellness Advocate • Season 14 • Episode 10

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What happens when your inner truth no longer aligns with the life you've built?

In this powerful episode, Carolyn Durrant shares her midlife transformation—from decades in evangelical Christianity to embracing a soul-led, spiritually expansive path. After leaving her marriage and religious community, Carolyn faced the immediate fallout of job loss, judgment, and deep personal upheaval. But through it all, she stayed committed to conscious co-parenting and slowly began rebuilding a life rooted in authenticity.

Carolyn's journey challenges the belief that it’s “too late” to change. She opens up about questioning religious dogma, confronting fear-based theology, and ultimately exploring new spiritual practices like tantra, tarot, Human Design, and energy healing. This episode speaks directly to midlife women seeking meaning, healing, and personal freedom.

We also explore Carolyn’s most recent life pivot—leaving city life for the countryside to create space for a different kind of spiritual community, one outside traditional religious structures.

If you're navigating your own awakening, questioning old beliefs, or wondering how to start over with integrity and courage, Carolyn’s story will inspire you to trust your inner knowing and follow the path of joy.

You can find Carolyn's Full Profile in our Guest Directory

https://lifehealththeuniverse.podcastpage.io/person/carolyn-durrant


Speaker 1:

Welcome to Life, health and the Universe, bringing you stories that connect us, preventative and holistic health practices to empower us and esoteric wisdom to enlighten us. We invite you to visit our website, where you can access the podcast, watch on YouTube and find all of our guests in the guest directory. Visit lifehealththeuniversepodcastpageio. Now let's get stuck into this week's episode. Today's guest is Carolyn Durrant, and she's no stranger to life's unfolding nature. After decades working in mental health and raising a family, she's now embracing a new chapter, leaving city life behind for the country and diving into human design. Her story includes bold choices, including leaving her first marriage to follow love and a spiritual evolution which spans the past 20 years. She's a mother, stepmother, grandmother and daughter, and she brings a deeply grounded perspective on change, courage and the lifelong process of becoming. Thank you for joining us, carolyn. That was a lovely intro. We just sit with that for a moment. Yeah, all right, who's that?

Speaker 1:

Let's just go with a little backstory of how we met and then I'm going to hand over to you. So we met at Human Design Conference just over 12 months ago and we stayed in contact. You kind of said that you were moving up, uh, up my way. Um, I don't even know how, because I'm a mid-north coast, but I'm not sure how we explain where you live, because it's kind of inland a bit more, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, but closer to us than sydney, and we kept in contact. Um, you're a listener of the podcast, which I'm super grateful for. And then we went to the human design. No, we met for lunch. That was it. We met for lunch. You came over to our place and our husbands did most of the talking, which is something that I've observed they do, and we've met again at the human design conference this year. Yeah, um, but I feel like this is a really nice opportunity for just you and me to be hanging out together for the hour. So yay for us, no one else.

Speaker 1:

All right, let's get down, let's get into it. All right, so I did a brief intro. Is there anything else you want to add to that to get us started, or should we just I mean, there's lots to add.

Speaker 2:

So it depends kind of which sort of direction we want to go. I'm happy to follow your lead or I can kind of add a few things in.

Speaker 1:

Okay, well, I'm just going to go straight into the first story that we, your love, your love of your life, and how that all unfolded, because I think that the relevance of this and the connection to your current spiritual journey is really interesting and I'm curious about that. So do you want to take us there?

Speaker 2:

Yes, I'd love to. So I'm currently married to Neil and we've been together for almost 20 years. Both of us grew up in a church very strong Christian tradition, anglican and I was very much embroiled in all of that, had various roles in churches right throughout my life, neil much the same. In fact. He decided to go into the ministry and became an Anglican minister in Sydney, so that's an evangelical church, so quite conservative and he ended up in working as an assistant minister in the church that I was attending. He arrived in 2005 and we'd been going there since sort of 2000,. Early 2000s.

Speaker 2:

We were both married at the time, so I'd been married 10, 11, 12 years and that marriage, the decision to marry my first husband, was very much a head decision. He was, you know, a great guy. We shared really similar values. We got along well. You know we did the things that you do when you're a young Christian in the church and you know, getting married was kind of part of that. But I think that relationship really slowed down and there wasn't kind of a lot of life in it by the time I started. I met Neil and he was this young guy who had a lot of enthusiasm for things that I was really interested in. You know, we went into ministry together, we were part of the leadership team for a congregation and I just really enjoyed being with him. It was fun, it was stimulating, it was. I got to do things new and exciting things because he had, you know, the energy. We seemed to really kind of connect and we did some really great things in the church.

Speaker 2:

But over that time, as we did this stuff together, we fell in love and for me I mean there's just no possible way. I thought I would ever leave my first husband as a committed Christian. That's just no possible way. I thought I would ever leave my first husband as a committed Christian. That's just not what you did. And you know I didn't want to anyway for all sorts of personal reasons. And the kids I had three kids by then. But yeah, I was falling hopelessly head over heels in love with this man who was just lighting up my life, head over heels in love with this man who was just lighting up my life. And I mean at the time I don't know if you've ever got to fall in love in that really heady way. It is just such a magnificent time of life, but it's crazy. It's crazy time too. Like you're not so much in your head, you know You're in these emotions and this joy. And so you know, we had these grand ideas of continuing ministry together so that we could, you know, still be with each other and our spouses would come with us. And you know all these ideas which you know. Looking back, I just go what you know? What were you thinking? How is this going to work out?

Speaker 2:

But we got to the end of the year 2006, and we'd spent most days together because we worked together in the church. I was working in children's ministry and he was assistant minister. And then it came to the holidays and I knew that I wouldn't be able to see him every day, and I mean it doesn't make any sense, but I just knew that I couldn't not see him for two weeks, like it just was just the most impossible thing. And so that shit really hit the fan at that point and it became really real. Um became real to my husband, then became real to the church, and that just meant both our lives exploded. Um, because obviously you can't have two of the staff at your church.

Speaker 2:

We weren't I mean, I don't know, were we having an affair. We were very much in love with each other and, yeah, of course, that wasn't going to work out. So you know, we both lost our jobs, neil lost his house wasn't going to work out. So you know, we both lost our jobs, neil lost his house. We had to negotiate, uh, care of kids and you know it was just a train wreck of a time, um, really hard going, but buoyed by this intense kind of passion for each other which fortunately lasted quite a while while we sort of renegotiated our lives. Yeah, and there's been ups and downs, it's been quite a rollercoaster, but yeah, we're still together, you know, nearly 20 years down the track and still very much in love with each other. And yeah, it's just together, you know, nearly 20 years down the track and still very much in love with each other. And yeah, it's just a joy to be with him most of the time.

Speaker 1:

We wow anyone navigating any kind of separation, when there's children involved, when you know partners and other partners and whatnot. It's going to be hard but you've got that. You have that added element of your whole community.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I was just thinking this morning about my friendship circle and there's no one from that period of time that I'm still in contact with, apart from one person who wasn't a Christian and who I knew through work and he's remained, yeah, a loyal friend. It sort of came and has come and gone, but yeah, it's interesting that none of the friendships which I think were almost entirely Christians haven't lasted, and you know I get it, but it's interesting, pretty cool. It made it hard, I think, particularly for us in those early years, because we didn't have much of a friendship, like for a few years. You know, it was sort of most obvious on New Year's Eve, because you sort of expect to be invited to something on New Year's Eve. We never were invited to something on anything we said. We never were, um, but yeah, gradually, through work, um, you know, we, we developed a new circle of friends which you know includes you and your lovely husband, you know. So yeah, what, um?

Speaker 1:

how did you navigate the whole children thing? Because your kids are now all grown, right, but they are all still within the church. How did that work for you? Did they live with you, did they live with your ex-husband, and how did you kind of separate?

Speaker 2:

yourself. I think we were really blessed, if you can say that. I mean it's kind of weird, but I left the family home and Neil and I rented for a little while and we shared care. So my kids stayed in their home, they stayed attending the same school, they attended the same church and I think the church was really protective from them, of them, for them. So I mean, apart from the fact that their mum had, you know, precipitated this massive change in their lives, in one sense, a lot of the other things in their lives stayed relatively the same and I think that really helped. It wasn't a big disaster for them. And their dad was, I mean, as angry as he was. Understandably, he, he, he just really stepped up and continued to look after them and provide for them and you know, and I did too, so we continued to parent in the same way and we sort of have a very similar way of parenting. So I think, yeah, it was this huge kind of hiccup, but sort of the track kind of. They stayed on the same track and you know they've done reasonably well. You know it's not like.

Speaker 2:

I remember being warned at the time by another minister at the church when it was all kind of going down and he and his wife had come from broken families and he was saying, oh, you're going to lose the relationships with your kids. You know they'll never talk to you again. And I'm like no, like, it doesn't have to be like that, like, and it won't be like that and I won't let it be like that. My energy will go into ensuring that the kids are looked after and ensuring that the relationship I have with their dad is a positive one, so that we can continue to parent them well I think it's kind of interesting to to highlight that you you didn't leave your previous relationship because you were having a bad time, like you said.

Speaker 1:

You know you're kind of going through the paces and doing, doing, doing life, and there wasn't any excitement or joy, but it wasn't like I need to get out. There wasn't anything bad happening in the church experience either that made you feel like you need to get away from it. Yeah, it was simply because you fell in love and you had to do something about it yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and I think it was about.

Speaker 2:

It was interesting. I had it's very interesting, the timing was on. I've been seeing an energy healer and, um, on friday I had a session session where we talked about this because, interestingly again, the night before my youngest kid had come for dinner and we'd talked a little bit about this and the kind of impact on him and it brought up these feelings of real. I think I was carrying still a lot of shame, you know. I think I was carrying still a lot of shame. You know that I'd left this good man and that I'd brought such kind of sadness and anger and what have you into his life. I think, as far as he was concerned, you know, we were just going to live out our lives and, you know, be together forever, and then I just dropped a bomb on that and I felt, I think for a long time I felt really bad about that.

Speaker 2:

But yeah, in this session on Friday it was a real kind of honouring of my right to joy and happiness and I felt like that I deserved is a funny thing, but just a claiming of me in my uniqueness and my specialness and what my life can be and what I want it to be and kind of owning that. And yeah, it felt afterwards I was exhausted afterwards, but it felt afterwards like I'd been forgiven finally, like I'd been able to let go of that, um, sense of shame or, you know, having done something really bad and that it was that it's okay. Um, you know, and this is this feels like the life that is meant for me. Not that that wasn't. I mean, I wouldn't have met Neil if you know, all of the things that hadn't happened before hadn't happened. But yeah, this just feels, you know, really right, it's nice to sort of let go of some of that baggage that you carry kind of unknowingly sometimes, I think.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, well, that's that whole kind of phrase and it just sounds so overused. But the layers of the onion, right. Yeah, you don't realize how much of that stuff that you're still holding on to. This is an experience that you had 20 years ago almost, and yet there's still a processing that's going on.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, definitely.

Speaker 1:

So you were talking with your son a couple of days ago. Do you feel like you need some kind of forgiveness or acceptance from him, or do you feel like that's already there with your kids?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, no, I think they're all a good, great relationship with each of them, and I don't feel, yeah, that there's any kind of hangover from that. What is an issue, though, is because they're all still Christians and my middle son is an Anglican minister. He's gone into the ministry, oh right, so there's a real, I think, sadness for them that I've left Christianity behind, because, you know, in their worldview I'm going to hell and, you know, I've rejected something that's really important to them, and I think that means that there's, you know, a disconnect. So there are certain things that I can't kind of talk with them about or share, about my own spiritual journey Although, interestingly, my middle child, the Anglican minister, is up for a bit of a conversation about that these days, so that's been nice to explore, um, but, yeah, there's always that kind of yeah, not so much that I left their dad in a way, but that I left god. It's kind of big, yeah, the big sticking point right, you've mentioned your.

Speaker 1:

You've mentioned energy healing, spirituality, and we know that you're into human design and I want to get into some of those things that you are interested in and how you've kind of how that's evolved from being in um, in the church. Um, what was I gonna say? Anyway, let's just go there. I can't remember what I was gonna say. Um, yeah, I just find it um, I'm really curious about how that started to unfold for you. So you're in a, you know, a christian. You've mentioned, from what your family are experiencing, that it's a solid belief and there's not really much option for open-mindedness, let's say so, when you and Neil got together and you were kind of gone through leaving the church or being rejected from the church, mm-hmm, when did you start to explore these new modalities? When did things start opening up?

Speaker 2:

Yeah Well, neil was ahead of me in that Like, even though he was a minister, he was really struggling just intellectually to put together what he was meant to believe, together what he was meant to believe, and so he was kind of on his way out by the time we got together. And I think in some ways probably, you know, was a part of that, because that was a real challenge for him. You know, his whole belief structure was kind of crumbling, his whole belief structure was kind of crumbling, and so he was working that through kind of at an intellectual slash, philosophical kind of level, whereas for me, I think, my Christianity was much more based in the community and so in being part of a community that loved and supported each other. And then, you know, we had to leave the church. We could have stayed, but only on the condition that we repented, and we weren't prepared to repent because that meant, you know, changing our behaviour. And so we attended a few different churches afterwards together.

Speaker 2:

But once people kind of knew the situation, it was very hard again to sort of become accepted as part of the community, and so gradually we stopped attending church and I found that as that kind of slipped away and I wasn't getting the weekly or twice weekly kind of inputs around Christianity, that the whole thing just kind of loosened until it just doesn't make the sense that didn't make sense before, which you kind of swept under the carpet or kind of ascribed to. You know the mystery of God or you know they kind of bubble to the surface and it's like oh yeah, okay, yeah, I do think same-sex marriage is a valid kind of thing and you know the whole sort of relationships between men and women and you know why is it particularly in Sydney Evangelical Churches? Why isn't it that women have more of a leadership role? Why wasn't I particularly? Because I was given various leadership roles. But if I had been male, I think my trajectory in the church would have been quite different. You know that there is this. You know very, I felt very clear difference in the treatment of men and women in the church, and so you're just going to actually, and then more and more of it, you're just exploring actually. No, that doesn't make sense, like really like hell, and you know this good and loving God and you know most of the world's population is going to end up forever in this. You know fire and brimstone, it's like you know, it just becomes easier and easy to let it go until it's like you know, it just becomes easier and easy to let it go until it's gone.

Speaker 2:

And then for our first kind of 10, 15 years together, neil was very much sort of in an atheistic, materialist frame of mind. He studied nature and did a PhD in nature, nature, so that kind of was his path and that never sat sat entirely well for me. Um, I did have a sense that there was something other, something beyond. Um, we didn't really do much about it until, um, we started exploring tantra actually and uh, neil, for his own reasons, was very interested in tantra and uh, we ended up going to a festival nearly two years ago which was very sort of like Byron Bay, sunshine Coast, kind of hippie, spiritual, but with this kind of philosophical teaching of tantra kind of underpinning it sort of.

Speaker 2:

And that was a real doorway for Neil to start exploring actually what was the philosophical underpinnings of tantra, which are just, you know, incredible when you go into it, and just made a whole lot of sense for him and, yeah, opened the door for us to really kind of explore this new spirituality. And yeah, I mean, I'd been meditating up till then. But I think that was really kind of, yeah, a significant door that we stepped through and, and it's really kind of informed how we do, how we our spiritual lives. It's lovely to sort of come back to that I haven't.

Speaker 1:

I have no sense of tantra or what that means. Do you want to go there or not? Yeah, I've got two girls who I train who just did a tantra, some kind of tantra course, but other than that I don't think they really knew what it was when they were getting into it.

Speaker 2:

Well, no, and I think a lot. I mean, I remember we went after that festival, we went to an introduction to tantra workshop and came away going. So what is it Like? You eat raspberries and you, you know. So I think for most people tantra is often associated with sex, with kind of tantric sex, which is, you know, very much a part of why we started to explore it.

Speaker 2:

But that's kind of just, in some ways, the icing on the cake. That's kind of just, in some ways, the icing on the cake and the Tantra stems from a tradition, a philosophical tradition that was really prominent over a few hundred years, back in like 800 to 1100, in the Kashmir Valley, where there was this state-sponsored kind of study of consciousness and people were paid to study the world, the universe, consciousness, awareness, energy, and they did and they wrote about it, and there's just these amazing texts which explain how the world works and which, interestingly, align very well to a lot of this quantum kind of stuff that we're, you know, engaging with these days. Engaging with these days, so yeah, a really rich theological and philosophical kind of tradition, very complex, and I can't remember what the question was now.

Speaker 1:

What is Tantra? And you've answered it. Yeah, it is. Yeah, I'm sure it's a bit like so many traditions, right, and like people study these things for years and years and years, yeah, and I guess for me it's about this openness to the universe, as kind of they talk about.

Speaker 2:

You know, energy and consciousness, or awareness and action, and just that there is this sort of sense of all being one on the one hand, but all of us also being very unique, concentration of a particular energy, and you know you have to kind of hold those two things in tension, and not just us but everything. So you know, hence the eating the raspberry thing that you know you can derive, you don't have to kind of go into this huge sort of mystical experience to have a spiritual experience, you, to have a spiritual experience, you can have a spiritual experience by just focusing on what it is to eat a raspberry, which you know is then the kind of sex bit, because of course, if you're applying that sort of focus and awareness to you know sexual activity, then that kind of can really amp up the experience which you know I think a lot of people have found to have gone into tantra for those reasons.

Speaker 1:

Right, wow, that's not the only thing that you're interested in, though, and I think that that's one of the things that I'm really curious about, and, as I said before, with the religion, it's like one, one way of thinking, one. You know the rules, the, the, the guidelines are there, you follow them, you don't step outside of them, you don't question them, and you could do the same, the Tantra right, you could be. You could get completely. Yeah, you could get completely. Yeah, jesus, my words are just yeah.

Speaker 2:

I told you.

Speaker 1:

I've got that moon in cancer like thing going on at the moment where I'm like just floating, happy to float. Anyway, you're actually interested in a whole bunch of different things tarot, human design. You've talked about energy healing and, yeah, I feel like you mentioned, when we met, when you came for lunch, something where this woman was doing some kind of weird thing with your head or something. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like you're experimenting with a whole bunch of different things. Yeah, where should we go from there? Tarot, how did you come across?

Speaker 2:

Tarot. How did I come across Tarot? I mean, it's always been around, but I think I came to it because friends of mine had gone to see a tarot reader and I was like, oh, that's very interesting. And because you know like I'm up for any experience. Then it was like, okay, well, let's see what she has to say. So I booked in and saw her too. I mean, as it turns out, a couple of the things that she predicted for those friends of mine haven't kind of, you know, but it's I've what I do now.

Speaker 2:

Um, well, actually, when I saw her, one of the really nice things was that what she saw for me and for us was something very akin to what we would like for our lives together. So that interesting sort of creating a new kind of community around spiritual practices and our home, our new home, being a base for that which you know it very much, is set up for. So, yeah, so you take it kind of with a pinch of salt, I guess. And now, most mornings, after I meditate, I draw a tarot card and you know, more often than not it's something to contemplate. You know, they're often about change, about sort of, you know, leaving things behind and moving into a new space, or yeah, there's some sort of resonance there and sometimes it's like uncannily spot on. So that's fun too, just as I don't hang too much on it. But you know, other people do and that's their vibe and that's what works for them, so good on them.

Speaker 1:

You've kind of inspired me, because I've had a pack of tarot cards since I was in my 20s and I used to read for people a little bit, but I always said I needed a book. Like, I'm not very adept at kind of remembering what all the cards mean, stuff, but it was often quite relevant. But what something I always said was was the future part of it is. That is kind of like where your energy is right now while you're having the reading. This is a possible outcome, but it doesn't have to be the outcome. Yeah, and how you're having the reading, this is a possible outcome, but it doesn't have to be the outcome. Yeah, and how you're feeling and what changes you know in your life can make a difference to that. But this is like this is what could happen if you continue along this path.

Speaker 2:

Sort of thing. I think that's so true. Yeah, like I've had that thought recently myself just around. Yeah, what energy you bring to something and how you know it could play out this way.

Speaker 1:

Um, but it won't necessarily, you know um so yeah, yeah, I agree, okay, a little bit about human design. So we met at the Human Design Conference and how long have you been into it?

Speaker 2:

I first sort of was introduced to it by my sister four or five years ago actually, but I didn't really pick it up and run with it at that time. I kind of did a few bits and pieces and then I was distracted and got on to other.

Speaker 2:

I mean, it's so complex, I think it was probably overwhelming and too much to get my head around at the time. And then, beginning of last year I think, I re-engaged with it and must have been just before the conference last year and I started the course that I did in conference last year and I started the course that I did in April last year, which was too much, too soon in retrospect because it is so there's just so much content to it. So yes, I'd say kind of, I would start my journey in human design, probably March last year, so you're pretty fresh.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, me too. Yeah, yeah, and I'm in a membership, you know, with Kim Gould and a lot of the members in there. When we have there's like often in there, when we have there's like a often a weekly catch-up and and there's a particular topic or um gates or um whatever, um, some of the girls in there have been using human design for over 10 years. Oh, wow, and I feel like, yeah, there there is so much, so much to take in and I look and I look at my chart and I feel my chart and I know that's me, but but it still feels so early on and, exactly as you said, it can feel quite overwhelming to to actually embody it. It's like the beginning is just sort of recognizing the energies. You're a we've got very different charts. I've got a chart that's got like lots of color and yours has got not very much color. Yeah, yeah, how did that feel for you when you first saw your chart? Because you're a projector, aren't you? Yeah, do you have your throat defined?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, throat and throat, Okay yeah. So no inner authority. I mean, I think when I first started I was a bit disappointed.

Speaker 1:

Well, I think that we all feel like that, especially when you read certain words like well, for me control. I'm like, oh God, I have something a bit more exciting than that yeah, my sun gate 62 is details it's like, oh, and I've got all these ones about taking it slow, you know, one step at a time. I'm like, oh, I'm an aries, for god's sake, I don't want to do one step at a time, yeah.

Speaker 2:

I think it's made more sense over time. I mean, as these things do, as you sit with them, yeah, and so that's been nice. Yeah, and so that's been nice. I mean I think like I'm open completely below the throat, which has made sense of my kind of like tendency to sort of sit back in the background and not kind of take a hard position. I've been in management and leadership positions, I don't know.

Speaker 2:

It's just really interesting all the different layers and how they kind of connect, isn't it? Because I'm a single definition I'm a one three, so very much independent, like to be on my own, but I've got a kitchen's environment, so I do well when I'm a one three, so very much independent, like to be on my own, but I've got a kitchen's environment, so I do well when I'm in a context where there's lots of things going on and and that was my last job you know I've managed a child and adolescent mental health team, so I got to sit in my office, not all the time but often enough, you know I could withdraw and, you know, get things done, but I loved being kind of having all these wonderful things happen around me and being part of kind of making that happen and supporting that process. And yeah, I can see why that job worked really well and that was an invitation that job. I can see why that job worked really well and that was an invitation that job.

Speaker 1:

So, yeah, you just sort of look back and go. Oh yeah that, and without having any energy for people who are listening and don't know very much about human design, you'll just have to do a little bit of digging around to find that every nice sub stack, yes, read, yes, me read carolyn's sub stack exactly, um, because she's giving us an intro to to it. Um, when you're in those kind of team environments, does it feel quite positive to be able to pick up on other people's energy and run with it and use that energy?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I can think of particular relationships I had with staff where the energy just worked really well, and I mean working alongside a projector, a generator you know who's got that sacral energy or a manifesting generator. It's just a joy, yeah, and it just feels like you can do some really good work together. So, yeah, that was really special. And there were a couple of people particularly where I really enjoyed that relationship and, you know, and they really appreciated in return, like when I left that job. You know that's when people communicate, kind of how much they appreciate. I mean, not that I didn't get that at all, but you know the things that were written in, you know the farewell card and so forth. I mean you just realise how much people do appreciate what you have to offer and yeah, that's special.

Speaker 1:

And, conversely, when you're with, can you pick up on the wrong kind of energy for you and does it make you feel quite different?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I mean, I left that job primarily because someone came in above me who was very much the wrong energy and I just felt shut down. I could not do the things that I was good at doing. And yeah, it's awful when that happens and I think that happens a lot in organisations where you have these kind of periods where you get the right group of people together and it works really well, and then you know that dynamic changes, somebody leaves, somebody else comes in and it's just so.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it's interesting and it's just um. So yeah, it's. It's interesting with your um human design type as a projector. When you first saw your chart and you and you discovered that rest is really important, how was I know? For a lot of people that is like such a relief for them because they feel quite misunderstood. How, how unaligned were you and how aligned are you with that particular part of your chart now?

Speaker 2:

yeah, I think the rest yeah, the rest thing is I think I've always taken time out in some way or other, um, and there are things that energize me, like correct, like you know, my gate three, creating order out of chaos. I mean I just, you know, I would doesn't take much to get me energized to do that if I have the opportunity and I've also got I think it's okay 42. But something about finishing things, like I love to finish things, I love to make my environment beautiful, so those sorts of things. It's very easy for me to have energy for um, and then I've just been in a position where I've been able to rest.

Speaker 2:

I mean, even at work, when I was working full time, I would almost always go out for a walk at lunchtime and get out of. I mean, I didn't know it at the time that that's what I was doing, but I would get out of everybody's aura and I'd find somewhere I was usually able to find. At one stage I worked next to a big park, parramatta Park, so I'd just walk through the park for an hour and then my last job, I walked down to Lumpian River and, you know, just had that kind of. So it wasn't physical rest as such. But yeah, it was kind of that sort of down-regulating, I guess, sort of energy, and then Neil's a projector too. So we, we honor rest. Yeah, um, I mean, he's got three motors so yeah, he's definitely got some energy about.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah he just doesn't have the safe room. He's got everything else um. So, yeah, when he's on, he's on um, but but but he'll also, you know, not crash, but he needs his rest too, and so evenings and sunday afternoons are very much separate things yeah, we've um talked about a lot about your, the change of your life and that, the impact of that big moment 20 years ago.

Speaker 1:

You've also, there's a change that's happened in the last 12 or so months, with you moving home. Um, how is that?

Speaker 2:

how does that feel for you as part of your I don't know life evolution, the journey that you're on, yeah, yeah, it's felt like we very I mean, 18 months ago we were both kind of ready for something new, but there was nothing kind of concrete, yeah, and then it just went okay, here we go, and we started this ride, or it's like we kind of got onto a canoe, you know, in a river and just like Whoa, and we were just like, okay, okay, here we go.

Speaker 2:

And you know, my youngest son moved up to the Tablelands and we got to visit and loved it and it just felt really, really right. And Neil looked for a job and, you know, found a job against, like, found a job, didn't get that job, was offered another job, invited into another job as a projector, so, you know, and it all just fell into place. We, you know, came up here to look for a house. We had one weekend to buy the house, just in terms of timing and Neil starting his new job. There were a couple that we booked in to see, didn't like them, but there was this other house that hadn't come on the market yet but we would like to see it. We went and saw it. It was just amazing.

Speaker 2:

And then it just feels like we've been given, kind of all these things to just help us settle in, and including, you know, some really rich friendships, and so, yeah, we really feel like we're in this flow and it's, yeah, it's exciting to see what will happen with that. And I think human design will be a part of that for me and Neil's philosophy will be a part, and you know, we're meeting people who are like-minded and are interested in hearing about and exploring these sorts of things and we're going to be putting on this workshop day of workshops. So, yeah, things are definitely it feels like, yeah, aligned, we're in the flow. Things are definitely it feels like, yeah, aligned, we're in the flow. Yeah, the universe is shaping.

Speaker 1:

It's kind of interesting, isn't it? Because life is a constant, but we often kind of get caught in one well caught. Or we're just like in our lives, doing our thing, and there's those shifts. But I think that you're like we're both in midlife, but you're a few years ahead and you started with your parenting journey a little bit earlier than me, and yeah, so we're kind of in different points, but there's I don't know where I'm going with this we, we're so in the moment a lot of the time that we forget that actually it's constantly changing, and even in midlife things change. Um, and you are ready for a next step. Can you talk us a little bit about another part of this time of life, which is ageing parents and being a grandparent and how that shapes?

Speaker 2:

things. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that was I mean those relationships. I mean, yeah, that was I mean those relationships. I mean you kind of feel a little frustrating in that your kids grow up, you know, become independent, get married and you're kind of free, and then your parents are sort of moving into that age where they are becoming more dependent and so your responsibilities kind of move from you know one generation below to the generation above, where they are becoming more dependent, and so your responsibilities kind of move from you know one generation below to the generation above. And you know, I think we're talking about that more these days and the demands of that.

Speaker 2:

And yeah, before the move I felt quite stuck in that because my mum had moved quite close to where I lived at the time and you know I was in a position to do a lot of helping. And it is it's a struggle to know kind of how much to do that and on what basis is you kind of decide how much of your life energy to give to that, and I think it's different. You know the contexts and the history of those relationships are just so different, but I think it's important to make that decision for yourself with kind of a clear eye, and not begrudgingly, not because society tells you that this is the way to behave or this is what you should do. I think there's a real freedom in doing that with generosity. And when I told my mum that we were moving, she was quite devastated because she really relied on me quite a bit. But, you know, we just knew that this was the right move for me to make or for us to make. So I'll go down to Sydney, where she is still each month, to see her, and then in the meantime we're in contact.

Speaker 2:

But other members of the family have stepped up, you know, and so she's now got this, you know, beautiful new relationship with, you know, one of her grandsons or a couple of her grandsons, you know, and there's other people rallying around, you know, and so it felt like a kind of contraction, sort of something fearful for mum, but actually, you know, and so it felt like a kind of contraction, sort of something fearful for mum, but actually, you know, it's opened up other opportunities and I think, you know, we've got to give space to that, I think, by honouring yourself, assuming that, I mean, and that's a whole complicated thing too, but you know, if you're living well and aligned with who you are and know who you are and coming from a place of love and generosity and joy and so forth, then I don't know. I would like to believe that things work out, even when you know you do make those hard decisions.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's that real delicate balance, isn't it, between uh doing things for yourself, to to give yourself fulfillment, and like feeling uh obligation to to be there for others.

Speaker 2:

yeah, yeah, that's a I think you might be able to do for others out of the overflow of, you know of, of your own kind of joy and nurturance and so forth, and that I mean that can be bloody hard to do when you're caring for kids, young kids, and that's a, you know, very challenging time of life. I think.

Speaker 1:

So, yeah, yeah, Wow. Well, we've talked about a lot of things. I'm conscious we've kind of reached our hour and I'm not going to like say that's it, see you later, but I will start to bring things to a close. Yeah, um, and I'd like to circle back around to um, something we've talked about already, which is human design, because you've just recently started, um, a sub stack, what'd you call it? An account? Uh, yeah, it's a sub stack thing thing. Yeah, yeah, substack thing Thing. Yeah, and you're starting to talk about human design and help other people to begin to understand it, so we want to direct people there, and they can do that by going through the guest directory, and all of your links to Substack and Instagram are there. Do you have a vision or a picture of how human design is going to unfold for you and how you'd like to use it to support others?

Speaker 2:

Not a clear vision, I guess I've never. Often, when people go into human design and want to make some sort of a living out of it or a business out of it, it's around kind of readings or I mean sometimes courses, online courses and one-on-one readings hasn't really floated my boat particularly, so it's kind of been okay. Well, what might it look like? But there's the idea of taking something that's so complex and that is often. There's so much jargon, so many words that we use, and it's challenging because you need kind of the key words that are understood across everybody who's into human design. To me it's a little bit like diagnosing in mental health, Like you need kind of you need a diagnosis because that informs. That means that we can communicate relatively clearly with each other about certain things and you can do research because you all have a, you know, a fairly kind of agreed upon understanding of what these things are. But also a mental health diagnosis is like it's. It can be so unhelpful. You and you know how can you sort of define this particular human experience. You know, according to this set of rules or you know so forth. So I get with human design that there needs to be this common language, but I think it's also it doesn't really land well for people.

Speaker 2:

And while I was doing some of this writing, you know some of these key terms. I'm like, what does that actually mean? You know, how do you kind of, when we talk about a focused and penetrating aura for a projector, I mean what, like, what's that experience, um, you know, or a sampling aura for a, um, a reflector. So I guess I guess what I'm sort of churning with over at the moment is how do you hang on to some of that language but actually communicate around it in a way that is more easily engaged with by others, in a way that then makes it helpful for how they live?

Speaker 2:

So that's kind of what I'm exploring with the Substack. It's just kind of a means for me to, it's a discipline, really to think through, okay, how would I articulate this? And then I think probably from that I would imagine sort of some workshops, I think, and something like what you're involved in, where there's a group of people who come together on a regular basis and have a chat about okay. Well, this is kind of what's going on for me at the moment and you know, isn't that interesting and this is how that shows up and I think, being part of that more of a collaborative thing or being part of a dialogue about it rather than sort of a didactic this is you know what human design says. You know you are.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I feel like there's kind of like a I mean, I don't even know whether I'm making this up or not, but like there could be a division because people go well, you know what's your type, what you know, what's your type, what you know, what's your strategy, and like it's all very and like I've heard it compared to Myers-Briggs, for example. So you know how can I use this for? To in teams or working environments. You know where am I best suited? That sort of thing, yeah where am?

Speaker 1:

I best suited that sort of thing, yeah, and then there's the other direction, which is much more about your personal translation, the lens that you see those gates through, how you feel it and how you experience it.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, I think it can be really helpful in kind of helping you unpack what is it that I've taken on by my conditioning, by my, you know, social context and what have you, and what is true for me?

Speaker 2:

I think that's, you know, one of the because you know this whole idea of differentiation, of being, this unique being, and that you know that that's special. That I think is really valuable, because you're just so pressured these days to look a certain way or to think a certain way, or yeah. So I think it does kind of open that up and allow you to explore, okay, well, yeah, what does it look like for me in my individuality and how can I deepen that or explore that further, or you know. And then I think too, the other really big thing for me with human design is just the relationships how it informs your understanding of other people and how it eases those relationships when you have an understanding of kind of where. How it eases those relationships when you, when you have an understanding of kind of where they're coming from, or totally and accept more acceptance.

Speaker 1:

Oh, absolutely. Yeah, it's really interesting, isn't it like? Rather, for you, probably having generators and manifesting generators around could easily be like, oh my god, I wish they'd just shut up, slow down, like. But then you see it like when we're at the human design conference, they've got their lanyard and it tells you and you go, oh, that's why they're like that. Yeah, oh, my gate there doesn't match with that. Or the reason I get on with this person is because we've got this channel like, yes, it's definitely any, and with your kids as well. Well, your kids are grown, but for younger people, if you can understand why they're behaving in a certain way, you know.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, absolutely. I think that is so invaluable that perspective on your children. Yeah, I'm really sorry I missed out on that.

Speaker 1:

Got grandchildren.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I've got to manifest a grandchild.

Speaker 1:

I'm really glad I'm in her life. Wow, that would be interesting.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, don't hold her back. No, it's really interesting to think about auras too, with the little ones. Okay, yeah, yeah, you can just kind of like I'm sort, yeah, can see that sort of closed and repelling aura. And then I've got a generator who's just the most gorgeous, open, embracing, you know.

Speaker 1:

So yeah, One last thing, just one question, just meaning, meaning Just in a sentence. How important is it for you to have meaning? You came from a church background. You've explored tantra. You're exploring tantra, tarot, human design. How important is meaning to you?

Speaker 2:

um, I kind of my sorry. My first response to that is um, I kind of sorry. My first response to that is I think understanding kind of is more important to me and Is that making sense of when you say understanding?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it's kind of like and I think that's going to change Like I don't think there is one meaning to be had for me. I think maybe there is for some people, but for me, um, I think that's gonna shift. Um, I think there'll always be some things that remain firm, like, um, relationships, the importance of relationships. I think that probably is my core. If I was to say what is the meaning of life, I think it would be what is? It's that sort of dance between your own kind of joy and the life that you will uniquely live, but it's in community, it's for each other, you know, and being more of yourself so that you can contribute out of that to others, whether that's in an intimate relationship or in a community. That's yeah. So how that kind of manifests, you know, is like probably infinity options there, but I guess, yeah, when it comes down to it, that's the nub for me, yeah, and so kind of being open to and understanding all the different ways. Perhaps that that can be true, it's important, it's what I do.

Speaker 1:

Thank you so much, carolyn. I'm going to release you from my clutches. That's been fun. Yeah, it's been great, and we're going to direct people to the guest directory so that they can start following you on Substack and reading all about human design and chickens. Yeah, country life, a little bit of country life. Thanks so much for joining us, it's been a pleasure.

Speaker 2:

Great Thanks, Nadine.

Speaker 1:

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