Life, Health & The Universe - A Podcast For The Midlife Rebel
Welcome to **Life, Health & The Universe**, the podcast dedicated to empowering women in their 40s and 50s to embrace a vibrant and meaningful life. Join us as we explore the intersection of health, wellness, and personal growth, offering insights and inspiration to help you navigate this transformative stage of life.
Each week, we dive into topics that matter most to you— from holistic health and nutrition to mindfulness and self-discovery. With expert interviews, relatable stories, and practical tips, we aim to inspire you to live your best life, cultivate deeper connections, and find purpose in every moment.
Whether you’re seeking to enhance your well-being, explore new passions, or simply find a supportive community, **Life, Health & The Universe** is here to guide you on your journey. Tune in and discover how to thrive in this exciting chapter of life!
Contact Nadine: https://lifehealththeuniverse.podcastpage.io/contact
Life, Health & The Universe - A Podcast For The Midlife Rebel
Unlearning Diet Culture: Self-Compassion as the Health Plan with Marla Mervis-Hartmann
Diet rules, mirror anxiety, and the lie that thinness equals happiness—let’s challenge the script. In this episode of Life, Health & The Universe, I sit down with Marla Mervis-Hartmann—coach, Reiki Master, TEDx speaker, and author of "BE-Friend Yourself-Finding Freedom with Food and Peace with your Body"—to explore what actually leads to peace with food and a kinder relationship with your body.
Marla’s story spans both extremes: cycles of binge eating marked by shame and the “thinnest ever” phase that still felt miserable. Those bookends reveal a deeper truth: the problem isn’t your body or your plate—it’s how we cope, and the voices we believe when we’re scared.
We dive into:
- Unlearning diet culture and why self-compassion is the most effective health plan
- Intuitive eating and body trust—how to stabilise physiology before tuning in
- Perimenopause, hormones, and body image—when your reflection looks the same but feels different
- The mother wound and early imprints that shape how women relate to food and their bodies
- Gentle tools for navigating binge eating, cravings, and compulsions without shame
- Practical rhythms that support midlife women: blood sugar balance, sleep, and rituals for “spiky” days
You’ll also hear scripts for catching your inner critic, ways to rebuild safety and pleasure, and how acceptance isn’t pretending to love what you don’t—it’s choosing to act like a friend even when you can’t. We even touch on men’s body image and the power of performance goals.
If you’re ready to stop fighting your body, release diet culture, and find freedom with food, this conversation is for you. Press play, subscribe for more midlife awakening stories, and share the belief you’re most ready to unlearn.
You can find Marla's full profile in our Guest Directory
https://lifehealththeuniverse.podcastpage.io/person/marla-mervis-hartmann
Welcome to Life, Health, and the Universe. Bringing you stories to connect us, preventative and holistic health practices to empower us, and esoteric wisdom to enlighten us. We invite you to visit our website where you can access the podcast, watch on YouTube, and find all of our guests in the guest directory. Visit lifehealth the universe.io. Now let's get stuck into this week's episode. Today I'm joined by Marla Mervis Hartman, best-selling author, coach, Reiki master, TEDx speaker, and founder of Love Your Body, Love Yourself. Through her work and her book, Befriend Yourself, Marla shares the power of self-compassion and body love as a path to freedom and confidence. She brings a wealth of experience from Reiki circles to women's wellness and a heartfelt mission to guide us all towards deeper self-acceptance. Thank you so much for joining me.
SPEAKER_00:Thank you for having me, Nina.
SPEAKER_02:I don't think we're going to be short of things to talk about today. I um have watched your TEDx talk, which is on YouTube. It's amazing. Loved it. And obviously, your personal experience is really central to the work that you're doing now. So would you be happy to sort of kick us off with a little bit about that or a lot about that if you like?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, sure. So I am here speaking to you all right now because of my tumultuous and very dysfunctional relationship with my body and my food. And unfortunately, I don't think that my story is very unique. It's not like, oh, wow, that happened to you. It's like, no, I believe that my story, which is one of using my body and food as a way to cope with my life, getting involved with dieting and trying to shrink my body, believing that my body was my worth, and doing all the crazy things: binging, purging, over-exercising, orthorexic. I was so mean to myself. Like the level of negative, the ways that I would spew on myself, so mean. And I used it as a diet tactic, really. If I tell myself how ugly I am, then I maybe I won't eat that thing, right? And so after one dark night of the soul after another, it was when I realized, and let me say, my dark nights of the soul was one was overeating so much and feeling like this will be my life forever. And if you're someone who struggles with food and binging, you know what I'm talking about. Those moments where your belly is full and you're just disgusted, and that feeling of so alone and the shame and the upset. And then the other major dark night of the soul was when I lost all my weight. I was the thinnest I'd ever been, and I should have been happy, and I was miserable. So those extremes told me that I was missing the mark completely. And the mark was not about food and body. And so my journey was to unhinge myself, unlearn a lot of my behaviors the way that I coped, call in what I call God, Spirit, the divine, to support me to and find ways to cope with life and stress and trauma and old patterns and behaviors. And so it's been a long ride, but at one point I realized, oh, I'm I'm like good. I think I'm good. And it was in that moment after there weren't there weren't knees back then, right? There weren't a lot of Marlas or people who were doing coaching around binge eating or freedom with food. We no one was really talking about body image other than to say that we needed to lose weight. That was the body image. Uh so I had to piecemeal a lot of this together, which is great for my clients because now I know what has worked for me and has continued to work over and over again for the people that I that I help. Cool.
SPEAKER_02:Wow. Yeah, quite an amazing story. I'd love to know. I'm kind of because I work in the as a personal trainer and I have for 20 years, obviously, this whole idea of losing weight is tangled up in so many different ways. Body image, losing weight, um wanting to, you know, wanting to look better. And it's like what's bad versus what's okay. And can do you kind of are you able to differentiate between when it's like a positive motivation for someone to want to lose weight? Because let's face it, some people are living a life where they're unhealthy. Um and they do, you know, my dad, for example, he's been told by his doctor that he needs to lose weight because he's got a heart condition, right? So, how do we differentiate between those people who have a negative self-image that's associated with um a relationship, a negative relationship with themselves, um, versus someone who wants to lose weight because they need to for their health. Well, it's very blurry, isn't it?
SPEAKER_00:It is so blurry, and it honestly depends on the story, the person, and the season of their life. And if they have a past of going back and forth from dieting to now, I need to lose weight, dieting like that swinging, and so what happens is we go into dieting and we can't sustain it. So then we go over here and we gain a bunch of weight, and then we say, see, I have to be on a diet in order to lose the weight, and I it's substantial now because I've gotten overweight, and that is a cycle that never ends, and so it has there has to be another road, and that's that's where I take people is that other road of yes, I understand you don't like the body you're in right now. I get that. You don't like it, you need to lose weight. The issue with that, Nadine, is there's so much diet culture, societal views, opinions from other people, even that, even approval and acknowledgement. Wow, you lost a lot of weight, you look great. That can feel like a sting when we've gained some weight back, which lots of times people do. So commenting on other people's bodies and their weight, I have not found it to be helpful at all, at all, in any case. And so it's looking at what is and it it takes such self-honesty to look and say, what is my deeper intention here? And going towards the intention and letting the weight take care of it, take care of itself. So when people come to me, usually it's because their head is crazy, but they still want to lose weight. And they say to me, Well, are you gonna tell me that I'm I have to look this way forever? And I said, No, but we're not focusing on that because has that helped you at all? No, it has not. So we're gonna work on the inner game, we're gonna work to fine-tune your intention. We're gonna look at when are you eating because you're emotionally eating and not wanting to deal. So when we take care of that, a lot of the weight stuff takes care of, can take care of itself. And when we are hooked on certain foods because of a craving, and we look at what does that craving mean and what does this food mean to you? And so everything, if you're not getting like if you're listening and not getting everything is under the hood here. We're taking all the things that we would want to say, well, I have I just need to gain, I just need to lose weight, I just need to do the this thing or this thing. I'm not saying that some of these protocols and some of the things that we're taught aren't a aren't like they're not a they're not all bad. There's certain seasons in our life that we need to be focused on maybe healthy fat or no sugar. However, the intention behind that matters more than anything. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Before we hit record, I um talked to you about just briefly about um my sobriety. So about three and a half years ago, just over three and a half years ago, I stopped drinking alcohol. And and it was it was socially acceptable for me to be drinking the amount I was drinking. And I think the same happens with food, right? And there's a and again, there's that push-pull because it's socially socially acceptable to go out and eat lots or um you know, we we get we can enjoy ourselves. It's all about enjoying yourself, and if you're if you're doing the things. Anyway, I digress. I'm kind of curious about is this is I've written it here, is all addiction an expression of the same experience? So our experience with food or a negative experience with food or dieting compared to gray area drinking, you know, where we we drink, but it's not seen as a problem societally, but it is a problem.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. And you said it perfectly. Seen as a problem with society. So that is an external validation. And we're not looking for that. We well, we are. That's the problem. We look outside of ourselves to say, Am I safe? We look outside of ourselves, we go on Instagram and we look and say, they're eating that, they're eating that, I should eat that. Oh, that person said that. Oh, that person is that weight, I'm thinner than them, so I'm okay. Oh, and so we give our power, we give our intuition away, and we don't ask our own bodies. So if we ask our own bodies, is my life am I at my optimal? Am I gonna thrive drinking? Am I gonna thrive having sugar every single night before I go to bed? Am I gonna get a good night's sleep, which then makes me a better person, which then makes me have more awareness in my life and my better at my job? Like what do you want out of life? And how much of yourself, how much of you at your highest form do you want to be in? And so your choice to not drink alcohol, although socially acceptable, and not put into as a doctor from Western medicine, would say, Oh, you're fine. We know we don't want to know, that's the issue, right? Like we don't want to know that we're not supposed to have whatever, and it's it's interesting, Nadine, because I think it can show up, it shows up in my life, it's not like it doesn't still show up. So I'll just share what I have found. I've never been someone that wakes up and has coffee. Like I I did and didn't I never really did that. I just wake up and I do my day. Well, I got I got um hooked on waking up and having this cacao drink that I make. It's cacao and it's rose powder, a little collagen and and a little bit of you know, coconut milk. And but then I was having it every day. And then I was like, oh, and then I'm gonna make a matcha. And then the next day I'm gonna have, you know, you know, decaf coffee or whatever, but I'm having this. And so this treat now became this expectation. And gosh, I don't I can't even believe I'm saying this because I don't even want to admit it to myself, let alone to everyone else. So I'm feeling that I'm really being called to, yeah, it's it's not serving me. Is that normal? Does everyone wake up and have their thing? Does everyone wake up and go to Starbucks? A lot of people do. It's not working for me. So I haven't had anything for the last few days. I didn't have some, and so the gray area for me is can I? You can. Or can't you? Or are we just gonna have to say no? And sometimes there's a no that has to happen in order to get ourselves in alignment to what we can be okay with. Going to bed thinking about my cacao rose drink in the morning, like yeah, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_02:Like, that's exactly the same for me. I read a book once, I think it's Gretchen Rubin. Um it's about habits. And she says that you're either a she says that you're either a moderator, I can't remember what the other one is, but I'm the other one where I can't moderate. So, like for me, like my husband can go out for dinner, he hasn't had a you know, a drink really for he might not have had a drink since last year, and he can have one glass of wine.
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_02:I feel like if I had one glass of wine, or I don't want to know whether if I have one glass of wine, I'd want another one, and then I'd get back into that cycle again. So it sounds like a very similar thing, and you know, it would be easy for someone from the outside listening to this, go, well, wine's different to cacao, but it's like the the mental, is it mental emotional connection to it? Absolutely. And the 100 when you're thinking about it when you're not doing it. Like you said, when you go to bed. For me, with the alcohol, it was like I'd have a glass of wine in the evening, but then I'd wake up in the morning and I would say uh to myself, I'm not gonna drink today. And so, like basically, I've started thinking about drinking as soon as I've woken up, and that's a problem.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, and what else is like a healthier thought in the morning? What do I want to do with my life today? How do I want to serve today? How can I love today? How can I receive love other than my you know, my drink in the morning?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Else can I feel?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, so it's very, very interesting territory, isn't it?
SPEAKER_00:Such a juicy conversation.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Let's talk about body image because I've um this is uh your experience, right? You had a um very um, what would you would you say negative, unfavorable perception of yourself and how you looked?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's so odd too, Nadine. I am not in a body that you would say, wow, I can understand why you don't like like I've always been thin. I was born strong, healthy, thin. I am not I'm in a physique a lot of people would say they would want. And I what I have seen, and you can look out there in the world, is that it doesn't really matter what body size you're in. You can have negative body image, and I've seen even women who do like me, they're even harder on themselves, they they set themselves to a higher ideal, they're even stricter, and so negative body image doesn't discriminate on body, unfortunately, age either. You know, you can see a lot of older women and men who are negative to themselves and to their bodies, and of course, we see it in younger kids, which is heartbreaking. And so I knew on an intellectual level that I would look and I'd be like, I'm okay. But even if I was okay, there was the fear that I was gonna gain weight, or it just wasn't enough. And I didn't want to let myself accept myself because if I accepted my body, that meant that I would probably overeat and then I would lose what I had. So there was no freedom. There was no, I'm okay. Because even if I dieted and got to a certain weight, then the fear would creep in.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I think it and it this is a cultural issue as well, right? A societal issue. This happened to you really probably before a lot of social media, wouldn't you say?
SPEAKER_00:Like yeah, there wasn't even social media. Right. I think about if I had social media, I would have been so screwed. Oh my god. Oh my god. I can't even imagine.
SPEAKER_02:So, like, I'm really I don't know where it comes from. Like, why do we have this negative um experience of ourselves? I I heard something that you said in in one of the podcast interviews you you've done previously, and it was about like when we look in the mirror in the morning, and I can guarantee that the first thing I do is tell myself how shit I look.
unknown:Right.
SPEAKER_02:Oh god, you look terrible, right? And my I'm in a changing body, I'm in perimenopause, so I can see physically things are changing, like my skin's not too bad. Um, like, but um like things are a little bit looser on my face, my tummy, yeah. The skin, like there's a lack of collagen production or reduced collagen production. My body's changing, and it can it's hard because I do judge totally judge myself, want to hide it, pull it in, you know.
SPEAKER_00:It's tricky perimenopause. It's like a it's like what the heck is going on here? That is like in because it it's completely out of our control, apparently. Yeah, so there is a a normal response, which is fear and judgment. And I think that that I mean, let's face it, how can we uh see things change? That's very idol idealistic to say we're gonna be like, Oh, is that amazing? I love the Bible. Like my belly is like that is too idealistic, but we do have to rein that in. And what you noticed, like, oh, I'm doing that. No, and I think in many different parts of our life, and this being one of them, is that there is the body that we were in, and the body that we're in now, and the body we're going to be in, and it does take a level of introspection and even ceremony, even grief, the grieving, and you see that with pregnant women, and you know, the bodies after birth. I'm not in the same body than after I gave birth to my 12-year-old son. It's a different body, it's a different life, and there's a grieving in that. I'm not a you know, I'm not a maiden anymore. I'm moving into my crone years, and it's getting ready for that. And that's that's a big one. I think it's a a huge topic. And along with along with that, are all the symptoms of perimenopause and menopause that also make us feel uncomfortable. And so adding more salt to the wound by then waking up and saying that's gross, that's disgusting, is definitely not gonna help. So, what do we do with that if we're still feeling like we don't like it? And so I'm gonna answer that. The question I asked myself, Nadine. I know that's your job, but I just did it. Um have more compassion. Oh gosh, that's so uncomfortable. Oh, I don't not like that. Oh, I feel so, you know, like just oh, like the compassion for self rather than like you're gross. It's like, wow, I feel so sad that I'm calling myself gross. I feel so upset that I'm losing this body. Oh gosh. And there's there's compassion in it rather than just being mean. And I think that we can look at that through the concept of we don't have to like our bodies, but we do need to love them. So we may not like what they look like, we may not like even how they perform sometimes if we're not feeling well or we have a chronic or acute illness. And although we may not like it and we may feel like we're hard on ourselves, we do want to show up with love. We want to show up as a friend, we want to show up with compassion and care and saying nice things and feeding ourselves appropriately, and I think that's a big piece of it.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I want to just jump back a little bit because I I don't know what your idea thoughts on this are or um your personal experience, but I do like although I have those negative talk talks with myself, I do I try I try and pet myself up as well, you know. I'm kind of aware of it, and um, you know, there's there's got to be some gratitude for being in this body that I've had this life experience with so far. I've carried children, you know, I move well and um you know I have a pretty good life. So like there's a whole bunch of things to be very grateful for. Um but I wonder whether hormonal shifts, because we know, I know our hormones change our perception, don't they? When we're in a monthly cycle, I certainly experienced that week before where it I look different, even if no one else would notice. I'm like, what happened? And then in the ovulation phase, I'm like, I look amazing.
SPEAKER_00:Totally. I yes, I I completely resonate with you on this. I can remember maybe late 30s or even in my 40s where it clicked. I'm like, oh my gosh, I've been doing this every month for my for my bleeding years, where I'm disgusting, there's something wrong with me, I need to lose weight, and then I have then I have my period, and then all of a sudden I'm I nothing's changed. I look amazing. And but I think we even we can't even realize the craziness. And so here we are, we're telling you, Nadine and I are telling you if you're listening to this, and and so what I have done during those times when I finally caught it after too many years, okay, this is the day that I feel really uncomfortable in my body. This is the day that I want to tell myself that I I need to lose weight. And when we know our thoughts and when we're aware of them, we can say, Oh, this is what we do during this time. Yeah. And so we may have it, but the spin becomes back in the back of the head. And then we're not taking actions on it. We're not planning, we're not we're not taking action, we're just allowing the thought to be there. And what I have learned, Nadine, is how do I allow myself to be uncomfortable? And how am I how do I allow myself to be uncomfortable with what my body looks like and not do anything about it? That's a muscle. For some people, they're like, oh, I got that one down. I don't know doing anything. However, that franticness of there's something wrong, I need to do something about it. So for me, during that time, I'm like, let's just not look in the mirror. Let's just go with clothes that feel comfortable. And you know, in a week we're gonna be wearing something cute.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, and feeling amazing. Yeah. I I wonder whether that um is the experience of peramenopause, is that it's actually like you don't actually look that different. Yes, there are things changing, but that it's a hormonal, it's a it's a hormonal perception and a change in the brain that might be making us experience things that seem so much worse than they possibly are to the outside eye.
SPEAKER_00:Absolutely. I think that that could be very, very true. And then the upset around some of the ways that we're feeling, we're tired or brain fog, which doesn't help, or whatever the symptoms are for someone, kind of stacks on top of it. And the one thing that we think that we can control is our weight, and it's the thing that we see. We don't see brain fog, we don't see fatigue, but we do see our bodies, and those things that are going wrong can compound, and it's like it's all those things compounded into what we see in the mirror.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, so we've all so the message here really to the listeners is doesn't doesn't matter how you actually look. If you you we know we have experienced and we do experience negative self-talk while you're you're moving through it and helping people to move through it, but it it happens to all of us, I think.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, and I believe, Nadine, that if there was one thing that we could change that would be the biggest leverage with our body and our food, it would be how we speak to ourselves. Things that we say. We we can't create the life that we want if we're putting ourselves down all the time. We can't create freedom with food if we are judging ourselves and telling ourselves everything that on our plate is wrong or being in fear. And we can't see people think that they can hate themselves into loving their body, like they think that the the vibration that you bring into healing is a is the vibration that you are. You don't hate yourself into love, it doesn't work that way. If it worked that way, then you you you'd be fine. You probably wouldn't be one, you probably wouldn't be listening to this podcast. And so it is that frequency of care and love and compassion and catching being aware of these moments that we're speaking unkind to ourselves, and then the deeper dive is why am I speaking that way? Who is speaking that way inside of me? Because there's voices inside of our head, a lot of them we don't like and we want to shut up, but they're trying to keep us safe. And that's important to realize that there is there are voices in our head that are getting our attention, and we are to lean in and care for them, not just tell them to shut up, not ignore them.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, like what's going on? It's an invitation, an invitation, yeah. Let's talk about food, more food. Let's talk about more things about food. Um, food starts with the mother, right? Food is nourishment, food is love. So what happened? Like, so it it's it's not bad to be an emotional eater. Effectively, we all are, because we've all had that experience. So what where does the wounding start to happen where we feel that need? Is it a are we lacking is it self-love or are we lacking love externally? What what do you see happening with what did you see happening with yourself and um and what do you see with your clients?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. So when someone comes to work with me, I'm we're we're working with some practical things, but we're looking for the wound. We're looking for where this got started. And it doesn't often take too much time. So if we're in a family, and these are just different scenarios. We're in a family where we're not getting the attention, even maybe a few times we didn't get the attention that we needed, or the care, or the acknowledgement. Because let's face it, we're not going to. We are being brought up by other human beings that are doing their best. Some of them do their best, and that's part of the issue, right? But there are moments where our needs aren't fully met. And so if we start using food as that coping mechanism, then that sticks. And when I say using food, I don't just mean using food emotionally and eating more. That can also be dieting. We can use food through control of food. And I see in my practice a lot of people with the mother wound where they didn't get that from their mother, or their mother wasn't there emotionally, or there was neglect, or there was commenting on their bodies, making them wrong for what their bodies look like. And so food. As you said, food is nourishment, food is grounding, food grounds us, it is celebration, it is life, it is pleasure. It is just when it's being used to not cope with a feeling. Where did this behavior kind of get stuck? And lots of times it lots of times it doesn't show up until later on in life because the body is okay enough for that person, right? Maybe they haven't lost, maybe they haven't gained weight, so they they're okay with the insanity in their head because diet culture says that insanity is normal. So when the insanity gets so loud and often the body has too too much weight for whatever that person thinks is too much, and now it's a problem. However, maybe it's always been a problem because the problem isn't about the food, the problem is about getting the right nourishment, and the right nourishment is love, love of self, love from God, uh, love from spirit, all of those.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Do you would you be open to sharing your own personal experience with how that showed up for you with the the wounding or not?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, oh yeah, gosh. I mean, get my book there. Um pretty much an open book with my story. Yeah. You know, it's interesting, Nadine. I my mom was she was she's she loved her body, she ate what she wanted. She does, she just she's never had anything weird around her body at all. So it was kind of like, what the where where is this coming from? And I think a lot of mine was society. And I did, I was a a young girl, I was a curvy little girl, as and so I got a lot of attention around my body. And and there was a moment where I realized, oh my bat, my body matters. Like I need to control this because this is how I get attention, and this is how I get love. Now I got all the attention and all the love before. Um, but my my dad did some weird things with food, right? And my dad was a drinker and an alcoholic. So I had him there, always there, but not really, right? It was three daughters and my mom, who's very, you know, very strong, a lot of estrogen. And my dad was just like, whoa, you know, just kind of in the background. And I think, I think in one way, when I look at that, there's a big piece of missing something, but not really understanding. And you know, I grew up with a deep connection with God, I grew up understanding that I had a source to go to with four challenges and struggles. The issue is is that when I connected my body and my food to the way that I coped with life, have a feeling eat over it, have a feeling don't eat over it, and then the addictive, we're talking about addiction, dieting is literally addictive. It is that addiction of control and that addiction of even the reward of giving to self, right? And and then you just want more of it, and then you get attention for it, and it and then you're not in the world. God wasn't fully in the world, I was in my own little world dealing with my my body and my food. Well, that's a safe place to be, right? No one, no one can bother me there. I can't, I can't, I can't fail other than what I'm used to. And I see that a lot with other people is they know the struggle of food, they know the struggle and the shame, it's familiar shame, it's familiar control, and and to choose to have a diser different discomfort can feel too overwhelming. So that's why I stayed in it for so long, and I hung on, I hung on to negative body image. I hung on to food things, it was so hard to let go, and it wasn't like I let go like this. It was, and this is important for people to realize is the healing cycle, it's not linear, it's cyclical. It's like you open up for a little while, you feel safe, and then you close, and then you open up for a little longer. You're like, Am I okay? I think this is okay, I can actually like myself today, and nothing's gonna happen, and then boom, right? And then we just get more, we get our nervous system to feel safer with more life, and so that is a bit of my story, a bit of the wounding. Okay, yeah, thank you. I also think that there's a lot of sexual violation that a lot of women have dealt with or dealing with, and that can be put on uh that shows up in food stuff that shows up in negative body image, and that can be so challenging to deal with. There's so much shame, there's so much wrapped up in sexuality, and it doesn't even have to be this is the thing, and this is what happened for me, is that the violation that I had as a child would be maybe considered innocent or not that big of a deal. And but tell that to my six-year-old, tell that to my six-year-old self-like that was no but it was not no big deal to her, right? And so the years it took me to even acknowledge that that was something that needed to be healed and worked with, and then the the body shame that comes up around that, there's something wrong with my body, or the miscommunication around what pleasure is and what we're and where boundaries are, and so a lot of women have the imprint of violation and figuring out where we are how we're allowed to say yes and how we're allowed to say no, and we can do that with our food and with our bodies, and that's where restriction comes in, and it's just one big, one big mess until we work it out with love. And I have worked Nadine with a lot of people who've done a lot of therapy, but they haven't done the therapy connected to the food and body. Yeah, so it's when you have that connection, when you when your body, your being connects the dots that it says, Oh, oh, now I get it. This is connected to that. And when we when we heal this even a little bit more, because a lot of people are like, I've talked about it enough. I don't need to talk about it. I'm like, we don't need to go deep into it, but we need to know that there's a connection here. And the reason this is still showing up in the food in the body image is because it hasn't the dots haven't been connected to release and for the body to go, I'm safe.
SPEAKER_02:Wow, it becomes so habitual for someone as well, doesn't it? Any kind of um addictive behavior like um my gray area drinking. It feels uncomfortable to say that it was addictive as well. So that's a thing. Um, but it was. Um, but yeah, it becomes so habitual. You don't even realize that, like you said, that there's that disconnect because it wasn't until I stopped drinking that I realized how much stuff I had that was like, oh, that's why I've been drinking. Because you know, you get offered a drink as a teenager, you might have had an uncomfortable experience, someone offers you a drink, you feel better. You don't think you know, they're more confident, not worried about what other people are gonna say, or and and and that just happens so subtly, and I'm sure it's the same with someone who has that experience with food, is it's so subtle, and then before you know it, it's just habitual. That's just who I am, that's what I do, and that's kind of what you were saying. When it gets tied up with your identity, then that gets really difficult to let go of because it's like, well, I'm this is this is who I am.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, who am I without it? Who am I without it? Big questions to ask. These are really big questions to ask ourselves, and lots of times we don't want to, it's easier not to, however, it's in when the crisis happens or the trauma happens or the midlife, you know, some something hits us over the head that we we say, what is going on here? How have I been living my life? And I don't want to do this anymore. And that it's that's a beautiful moment because what the way I see it, Nadine, is this visual of when you were sharing about you and that let's say, maybe not you, but someone with a drink in hand, and now they're feeling more relaxed, and now they have more confidence. They're literally living in front of themselves. They're like they're they're not connected to their core, they're not in their body, they're not fully aligned with their soul and their spirit. They're living in front, or maybe they're living behind, but it's it's not actually true. It's not truth. And it's not and eventually it will it will crumble. And that doesn't always look so pretty.
SPEAKER_02:No, it's like the yeah, it has it kind of has to all come crumbling down in order to pick out the bits that you want to keep, get rid of the bits that aren't serving you, or get rid of, or well, we don't really want to get rid of them necessarily, but let go surrender, go, surrender, release, release, release because they're all part of the experience, right? And that's another thing. It's like we we have to accept all parts of ourselves, that's part of the process of moving.
SPEAKER_00:These parts of us who have chosen food or negative body image or alcohol or whatever, the thing we're doing the best that it can. That was the best that I knew how. That's the tool that I had, and I ran with it. And it's so important when we look at our lives and we're like, wow, I wasted a lot of time doing this thing. That's the best I could do. That is what I had, and it worked until it doesn't work anymore. And actually, when it stops working, that's that's good news. And that's when often we do need someone to talk to. We do need a lot of these places that we're speaking of are quite deep, and to go in them alone, it's almost impossible.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. So that's a great segue into what you do. Well, it's pretty obvious what you do, but it's a great segue into your work um with clients and also your book. Um, obviously, you want to reach a wider audience and help more people. Um can you share a little bit about your your work um and and the book?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. So I, as you can tell, I work with people to find freedom with food and peace with their body. And it's not through the fixing. It is going deeper with a lot of the things that we've touched on, Nadine. What is the deeper wound? What is here? How do how can we care for ourselves more? What is in the way? What are what are the things what are the foods that we need to let go of for a little bit? And how can we do that in a way that is compassionate rather than coming from force? Punishment and punishment. And I need to be a good girl, right? And so there's it's one-on-one. I have groups as well. I do some group work, which is amazing when women get to hear each hear each other speak about this. And I do work with men. I have quite a few men on my in my practice right now as well. Uh, it's a common thing with women, but I think that more and more men are coming forward and feeling safe enough to say, yeah, I am dealing with this too. And I don't know who you work with in your fitness world, but I'm curious to see to what you see in that element. Um, but I'll just finish this and I'd love to hear. And then I wrote my book, Befriend Yourself, finding freedom with food and peace with your body. And that was to share my story, to share what I call my story, as I said before, which is not really a unique story, but I've had so many people say, I feel like you told my story. I feel like you told my story. Thank you for telling my story. And so I, if you are drawn to that, you'll probably see some some of you in that book.
SPEAKER_02:Yes. What was the question you wanted to know about the gym?
SPEAKER_00:Oh, in your your yes, sorry. Yeah, I don't want to poo-poo do like your introduction to the book and anything. You're in the fitness world, if you see with do you work with men as well? Yes. And do you see the yeah, yeah. Do you see things like this show up with men? Do you feel it in like I mean I can feel body image stuff?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah, definitely. It shows up in a very different way, though, right? Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:How do you see it show up for a man?
SPEAKER_02:Um, well, it it's the women um want to lose weight, men want to put weight on, they want to look good, you know, they want to look buff and that that sort of thing. But to be honest, over the years we have become much more focused on, my husband works in the in the gym as well. Um, we've focused much more on performance. The body stuff, and the body stuff uh comes, but it's certainly not the front of mind thing for most of the people that we work with.
SPEAKER_00:That's fantastic, Nadine. Yeah, that's so important.
SPEAKER_02:And you know, we'll have people asking if they they want to lose weight, but we and they want a a diet plan, or and we're like, no, you just eat, just eat real food. Try not, yeah. And they're like whole food. Because there's because they're so like um a lot of people we've experienced in the past, not so much now, they want the they want the solution, they want someone else to tell them what to do. They want to do the um, I'm gonna give up coffee, alcohol, sugar, I'm gonna exercise two times a week, I'm gonna do it for a month, they get massive results, and then they go back to doing exactly the same. And it's just this cycle, and so we discourage that as much as possible. Great. Yeah, yeah. It's like, okay, just you know, close your eating window. Don't don't wake up and eat immediately, give it half an hour before you yeah, like stop eating before it gets dark. That they're the kind of things, nothing about changing the types of food, just some behaviors and stuff. But yeah, um, so definitely men have stuff going on as well. Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_00:You're welcome. Sorry, you're welcome here, men. Yes.
SPEAKER_02:Um so your book sounds um great. How's it going so far? You've had it released for 12 months or almost a year now. And how's how's it going? Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, going great. Good.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, getting it more.
SPEAKER_00:Just finished the audio book, so that will that will be out soon.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, oh cool. So can you just can you give some? I mean, we're getting close to the end of our hour, so I just wonder whether we can close with some simple things that like we've gone kind of deep and and really determined that there's a lot going a lot going on when it comes to our relationship with with food or any other um negative cycles. One of some of the one of the tips that you might um suggest in your book, actually, I've got one that I'd love to ask you about. I'm not gonna give you the choice. Intuitive eating. I think that that's something um I'd love for you to share as we close, just as a hot tip.
SPEAKER_00:Well, you you spoke a bit about that when you said that you don't give people a diet plan. You you are you're pointing them back to themselves, right? And so intuitive eating, some people say, well, if it's intuitive, I'm just gonna eat a bunch of and so it's a it's a deeper process than that. It's actually slowing down to listen, slowing down to listen. Does my body want this? Is this the right time? So I think that we can we can have the pizza, we can have the treats. However, what state are we in when we're eating those? Is it coming from pleasure? Is it coming from I'm so stressed out that I just I need to shove this in my mouth? And so there's an attunement that we have with ourselves that we can learn over time. And that happens by you know, the intuitive eating, it it happens throughout our whole life where we actually can slow down more and ask ourselves, what what do I need right now? What do I want right now? What what what am I what is my body feeling? Oh, it's not feeling this, but I think we're actually, I'm not feeling it, but I think my body actually wants me to have, you know, of this fruit or this vegetable or this pops into my head. And I'm thinking, oh yeah, maybe I'll check that out. And so intuitive eating is is a big, big topic. And I think it takes time to attune to what that even means. And so the first tool that I would say around that is slowing down before you eat, slowing down, giving yourself time and eating. Don't go too long where your blood sugar stops, and then you're eating from a place of survival. We we can't be in, we can't be attuned if we think we're just not gonna eat that like that that doesn't help at all. So if I was a lot, a lot of people who are emotionally eating are doing it because they're actually not nourishing themselves enough with real food. Okay, gone with too long a windows, and then they can't act, you can't access your intuition from that place. That that part of the brain is not accessible at all. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Wow, that's like another conversation. I had a little bunking of questions. We might have to save them for some other time. Thank you so much. I've loved this conversation, I think it's such important work, and um, yeah, I can't encourage uh the listeners enough to um check check out your TED Talk on YouTube, buy the book, and um have a look at your website. Um and yeah. Thank you. It's been great. Before you go, can I ask you a small favour? If you've enjoyed this show or any of the other episodes that you've listened to, then I'd really appreciate it if you took a couple of moments to hit subscribe. This is a great way to increase our listeners and get the word out there about all of the wonderful guests that we've had on the podcast. If you'd like to further support the show, you can buy me a coffee by going to buymeacoffee.com forward slash Life Health the Universe. You can find that link in the show notes. Thanks for listening.